Near-death experiences

The dream-like flying through a tunnel towards the light at the end, and flying around outside your everyday body are common ingredients in shamanic drum trips, and I have personally enjoyed such trips. I was trained by a student of Michael Harner, an anthropologist who had “customized” the techniques used by various peoples so us modern day guys could get into them (no way Castaneda!); all this without resorting to drugs. It is the visceral sensation of your own and the others’ drumming in your body that brings forth the trance, along with some strong suggestion.

I have said howdy to my neolithic forefather while on a drum trip at a stone cairn; I have been sucked up by a whirlwind to the upper world, up to a pueblo-like complex and danced with the people there; I have been eaten by wolves; I have gazed into the furnaces of the rimthursar in the underworld, etc.
Proof of god? Really now. The whole thing was just great fun!:cool:


LINK TO COLUMN: Do near-death experiences prove there is life after death? - The Straight Dope

I guess you have a good imagination. For the real thing, I was brought back twice from near death and didn’t see a damn thing.

akilles, it’s helpful to other readers to provide a link to the column under discussion when starting a thread. I think I’ve editing in the column you’re talking about; if I got it wrong, please let me know (by email or by REPORTing a post) and I’ll correct.

I’ve hovered over myself a few times and watched as everyone talked in slow motion. The only lights I saw were the lights present in the room. Someone was running my body but it wasn’t my consciousness. My body was conversing with people in a restaurant in one instance. It could have been a seizure or something but it was weird. No drugs involved but I was on Meds that I was allergic to. The epilepsy meds almost killed me. There is more to life than just what science says there is. Science only seems to test what they know will not interfere with their perception of things. At least the scientist who found that crystals can grow in mosiac type forms has been rewarded for being discredited and fired for publishing his theory. He won a noble prize along with a million bucks. I wonder if he is still doing research, I’de tell everyone where to go if they treated me like they did him.

There was a thread here about a purely material replication.

Sam Harris wrote in one of his books about a hospital where numbers were written on a little ledge on the ceiling, so that they’d only be visible if the person was having a legitimate out of body experience rather than their unconscious mind tricking them into thinking they were having them. Nobody reported the numbers correctly, as I recall.

There have been a few articles lately in NewScientist about experiments that replicate the out-of-body experience in a lab.
Basically, you just have to fool the proprioceptive sense (the sense that tells you that you are in a body and where it is and where its parts are).
Here’s one such article (From 2009)
http://www.newscientist.com/video/16847382001-Virtual%20out-of-body%20experience.html

If you were having an out of body experience in an operating room gamerunknown, would you be looking for numbers on the top of a ledge? I’de try to figure out what was happening, screw the numbers.

I had the experience and it was very calming

Wasn’t the Air Force inducing these experiences in centrifuges in which pilots experienced GLOC?

Hi there. Here’s my take on NDE.

Now, I’ve had two NDE’s in my life. I’ve also been CLINICALLY dead for 48 minutes due to electrocution.

Here’s what I “saw:” My vision was filled with a ‘brilliant’ silvery flash at the point of ‘death’ in one of my NDE’s, which occurred from drowning, caused by a large Drill Instructor standing on my back in a foot and a half of water. A doctor related to me that this is what happens when a body is subjected to severe traumatic pain. The optical nerves are responding to the flooding of the body with various chemicals each persons’ body produces in response to severe pain. It’s like getting punched in the nose: the first thing you see is a bright flash…followed by ‘spots.’

There was no tunnel. No bright light. In fact, my sight was functioning. So was my hearing. These two things would carry over to the second NDE and my electrocution.

There were several ‘hallucinations,’ which as was explained to me, again, is a natural function of the body’s cessation of production of the chemicals which maintain the separation of our conscious and subconscious minds…which we all experience every night when we dream. However, since most NDE only last a few minutes, we don’t get the full affect as in a dream.

Also, when people awake from NDE’s, they are very susceptible to suggestion. When people ask “Did you see a bright light?” …their brains remember the chemical flash. “Yes!” they say. And they make up the rest from their suggestible brain each time they’re asked another question, plus, they’re responding to what they’ve heard about hundreds, if not thousands of times from other NDE experiences.

The second drowning was me being stupid solo-diving the limestone caves in King’s Head springs, in Crystal River, FL.

This one was different, because I knew I was going to drown and had prepared myself for the eventuality. There was no trauma, hence, no bright light. Luckily for me, a SCUBA class was standing on the edge of the 78’ precipice that leads down to the caves, getting ready to practice their ‘free ascents,’ a requirement for getting your SCUBA license. The instructor and a couple students dove in, seeing my body floating slowly downwards (I made it to within approximately 10 yards of the surface). I was rescued, they jumped up and down on me a few times and all was well.

No tunnel. No bright light. No relatives.

Electrocution happened when I was 16. Dead of winter. 3-4’ of snow on the ground. I was changing spot lights around our stable, wearing nearly nothing (I’m tough that way), using a metal ladder on a wet metal wall, reaching up to knock off what I thought was a piece of ice in a broken spot socket. It was not. ZAP.

This was a 440-volt commercial line. The electricity arced from my left big toe. I have a ‘hole’ in that toe nail that will not heal. I ripped the toe nail off once just to see (I was a young Marine). It grew back, but with the ‘hole.’

I fell almost straight down, my leg caught in the ladder, dropping half in and out of a drainage ditch full of ‘water,’ made up of melted snow and horse urine. I was covered from the fifth rib on my left side (facing up) to full immersion on my right. My head was under this slush.

Of course, the breakers blew in the barn, so we have a good timeline for how long I was a croaker. I was discovered by the family German Shepherd as my youngest sister and it came across the open fields between our home and the stables. The dog wouldn’t come when she called because he was investigating the ‘crispy critter’ he’d found.

When she found me she screamed. I know because the last thing to go was my hearing. It took me a while to figure out I was dead. There was definitely the ‘white light.’ Then that faded to sort of grayed out sight. Some light was penetrating the slush. I couldn’t actually make anything out. Sometime in all this my eyes shut down, as I guess the body was trying to conserve what little energy was left.

When everyone came running out of the barns, I could hear, faintly, the commotion that was transpiring. Before that, I’d had quite an experience with memories as my sub- and conscious mind got together. One of my favorite pictures was one of my new Father holding me as a week-old infant. I don’t remember that, of course, but I got a full-blown ‘memory picture’ of it from my baby’s eyes. Rather blurry, but I knew that was when the picture was taken. The rest of it was a jumble of memories and fragments all vying for attention.

Then, a slow fade to gray…then black. Then pain, as the emergency responders hopped up and down on me, zapped me a couple times, hit me with an adrenaline shot straight to the heart and zapped and jumped up and down on me a few more times. They got a pulse, things started back up in my body, and then I was transported to the hospital. I regained consciousness (opened my eyes) about 14 hours later.

I was told that a friend, an RN, saved me, by stopping people from pulling me out of the sub-freezing slush, which had kept my brain super-cooled, stopping the evacuation of oxygen which normally happens and stopped my brain from swelling into the skull, which we all know what happens then.

I was already hugely non-religious, having been tossed out of church with an angry call to my mother from the pastor saying “Come get your Demon-child!”

They couldn’t answer the questions about religion I’d forwarded…questions from a 10-year old boy. So I realized the idiocy of religion early on and was not influenced by it socially.

So when they asked me if I saw the usual BS people say they’ve seen during NDE’s, I was able to tell them they were idiots.

Anyways, if there is a soul, you have to be dead for longer than 48 minutes for it to leave. Either that, or Satan is inhabiting my body. :smiley:

The suggestion made about near-death experiences in this ^^ book is that it may have something to do with the release of dimethyltryptamine (DMT) from the pineal gland in the brain.

The book details experiments that were performed on patients using various doses of DMT, in “active” or “breakthrough” doses it induced symptoms that are usually associated with NDE- feelings of detachment from the body, meeting with higher beings, a sense of peace, a sense of total understanding, etc.

DMT is found in virtually everything living, except in humans (in cases where it was given to patients intravenously it was undetectable after half an hour, which might account for this) but the chemicals required to form DMT can all be found in the pineal gland. The suggestion in the book is that when a body is approaching death, the pineal gland might trigger due to the stress and release the chemicals into each other, they react, a dose of DMT is formed.

It was also suggested on the U.K. quiz show “Q.I.” that the flashback of your life in a moment of mortal peril could be your brain simply rapidly cycling through memories to try and find one that can help you- for instance, if you’re drowning, finding a memory of how to un-drown would be handy, so your brain cycles through everything really quickly and thoroughly (because if you’re drowning it’s obviously pretty critical that you don’t miss anything).

The latter point is from a TV show, though- one with a bit of intellectual credibility, and I assume that they have sources, but being unable to cite them I’ll admit it’s basically just hearsay…really logical hearsay…