My parents have just told me they’ve gone through their savings, and are talking to a bankruptcy attorney. They probably will have to move in with me or one of my sibs. If any Dopers have experience and advice for either of these situations - parental bankruptcy and parental boomerang, I’d love to hear it. They are in Florida, and own a condo that’s underwater - just financially. Their lawyer told them to stop paying their mortgage. Does anyone know what happens to a home mortgage in bankruptcy? Neither I nor my sibs are in Florida. While this was far from a surprise, I wished they’d have said something months ago. Argh!
Advice, experience, or even good questions to ask would be very helpful!
Just be aware stopping mortgage / bankruptcy does not mean they have to move next week. Foreclosure can take a year or more - plenty of time to make arrangements, or to have modifications made.
Just because this is happening now doesn’t mean they will necessarily be moving in with someone eventually.
Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the support - I love this place!
2gigch1 I know my folks aren’t packing up right now, but that seems to be the direction they are leaning towards. That may not be practical, but Mama Zappa (my wife) and I, and my sibs are just now starting to figure things out.
boozilu Thanks for the reminder, but I was assuming that any money we send them would be a gift not a loan. If they had income to cover their expenses, they wouldn’t be in this pickle.
jasg They are in their mid to late 70s. My Dad could theoretically work, and he may have to be a bag boy or a greeter at Wally World. Downsizing their home is an option we’ll look at. They have to stay someplace, and the basement of one of their kids may not be the best long-term solution.
Also, caring for retired parents may indeed come back - particularly if said parents are not great with money. Or great about asking for help when needed. :headdesk:
At that age, work is hard - but are they really ready to stop living on their own? Same question for you and your sibs. Also sounds like they are not ready for nursing home care.
Whether it is boomerang kids or parents, multi-generational households are hard if they are not planned or an expected part of your family life. We had a daughter and grand kid with us for 18 months and it was HARD. The loss of privacy, independence and feelings of failure are severe. We finally decided it was best to get them on their own so we found them a place nearby. It is costing us more than (the not free) single household but it is better for all.
With parents, the issues are different and I am a fan of mixed generation families when the need is not solely financial. After watching a wealthy aunt and uncle move through the very grim (bur expensive) nursing home experience, my sibs and I convinced our parents (85/92) to move in with one of us. They were ready to give up the independence, but not ready for nursing homes. Our goal was/is to avoid nursing homes (Dad passed quietly at home after some fantastic home hospice help).
I’m sorry you’re going through this. I know you asked for parental anecdotes, but my grandfather did most of the raising of me, so he’s more like my dad than anything. He’s always been terrible with money, but he inherited a house that he sold to move into an apartment when he couldn’t look after the house. Then the GFC hit, plus I suspect he just overspent. He’s filed bankruptcy several times in his life (always because he was sure his business that he started was going to take off this time). That money is gone, and due to his previous bankruptcies he (thankfully) didn’t really have much in the way of other bills.
It’s tough. He can’t live with me (I’m overseas), so between me and some other relatives (but not my worthless father, his son) we are keeping him in a rural apartment for old folks that are still ambulatory. That takes care of a lot of his groceries, because they feed them, and the rent is such that SS almost covers it. If I were in the US I would almost certainly have him living in my house. It will be easier if/when he goes to a nursing home, because then Medicare will step up on the expenses.
I’m lucky to be in a position to be able to throw some money at the problem and sort it out. I’m also lucky that there are other relatives to help me, since his son is never going to be worth the powder to explode him with. Otherwise I have no idea what I’d do, and the answer is probably either find a way to bring him here, which means he would be miserable and cranky, or find some way to move back home, which would essentially wreck my life and marriage.
But while I do provide him cash every month, I don’t expect to see it again. It’s a gift, not a loan. I also have a monthly conversation with the other relatives who are looking after him, to make sure he’s got enough to live on and so forth, and to keep an eye on his housing situation. What I don’t want is for him to have to file bankruptcy again because he gets behind on rent or gets a credit card from somewhere. I feel more like his parent than anything, and that sucks. If he lived with me, that would be worse.
Good luck. Try to find a soft landing for them, see if you can (like I had to) have some full and frank discussions about what is expected to happen going forward. They do have a lot of time, but a firm plan needs to be in place.
Thanks again, jasg. I appreciate the reminder of the pluses and minuses of multi-generational households. The last time my Dad visited, he griped about the housekeeping. We’re raising two kids with diagnosed developmental/psychological issues who were in their late tweens at the time (and were useless around the house then), and my wife and I both work full time. My Dad’s comments did not make us happy, particularly since at that point I don’t think he’d washed a dish in his life. As I approach the “crotchety old man” stage of life myself, I do not need that crap from my old man. Then there was the time my Mom (unintentionally) drove my daughter to tears in a 30 second phone conversation. I do love my parents, and generally like them, but I’d rather not live with them if we can at all avoid it. If they do stay with us there will be a behavior contract, like the ones we’ve drawn up with our kids in the past.
I’m afraid that a nursing home or assisted living facility is out of the budget. There’s a good one near us, but good does not equal cheap. They can live on their own, as long as they win the lotto or something.
Gleena, thanks for the support and the story. I think the best solution for my folks would look very much like your situation with your Grandfather, but in our case out-of-state instead of out-of-country.
My wife and I will have a strategy session with my sibs later today, and then full and frank discussions with my folks in the days to come.
We went through something similar with my parents a few years ago. It was definitely pride that kept them from speaking up earlier when the problems first arose.
It is tough without a sibling in the area but the key thing is to get a real handle on the finances–is it truly a situation where they need to consider bankruptcy or is it a cash flow problem that could be alleviated by the kids all contributing a couple hundred dollars/month towards expenses? My siblings and I took over payment of a home equity loan that my parents had and we each contribute additional money each month to help with food and other household expenses. Fortunately, the mortgage was fully paid.
My sister was given a full power of attorney and spent a lot of time getting a handle on the various bank accounts, expenses, etc. and got things simplified and consolidated. She has continued to monitor things and steps in when necessary to sort things out, but, generally, just getting some help to get out of the hole they were in and improving the cash flow each month solved the problems.
First of all, even if the property proceeds into foreclosure, Florida is a judicial foreclosure state and has one of the slowest foreclosure processes in the entire country, something around 800 days. So there’s no need to panic immediately about living arrangements.
But I am curious, did they pursue any of the intermediate steps prior to foreclosure, like HAMP or a short sale?
May I point out that there are states with a much lower cost of living around - a friend just helped her parents move to West Virginia, and another has relatives in small town mountain Ohio [Zanesville. Never been there.] A reasonable apartment may be in order in some area of lower cost of living and more rural or suburban. Sure it is less ‘culturally rich’ but big whoop. Live within your means =)
And I would love to point out that homes nowdays are really not suited to multigenerational living. If you look at many of the older multigeneration homes they were large, had multiple ‘zones’ so there was a degree of privacy [think bedroom, sitting room, ensuite bathroom for each married couple, and at least 1 bathroom and a couple rooms for kids, and a half bath for visitors as the optimal solution.] It would be best if there was a way to remodel your home to put in a ‘mother in law suite’ for the parents so they have privacy, and you all can keep out of each others hair, it would go a great way towards reducing stress.
First, look at the budget. If they’ve gone through their savings, they need to figure out where their money is coming from and how it is going out, and adjust accordingly. This will probably mean a move, possibly to a duplex or apartment. It will be tough, but it’s better than forcing yourself on your children.
I don’t know about Florida, but if its like Indiana, then they will be on the hook for the balance left on the mortgage even after the home is sold at Sheriff’s Sale. Bankruptcy will take of that balance. If Florida is a state where the balance does not attach to the individual, then if they have lots of other debt, bankruptcy may be called for anyway. Make sure they have good counsel, since there are a lot of BK lawyers out there that charge less, but do a lousy job.
But really, it’s a matter of the budget. What kind of income they have coming in - SS, pension, etc., - versus expenses. Is there a lot of pride involved, or a denial that they may have to change their lifestyle? That is probably your hardest challenge.
Isn’t FL one of those states where you can file for bankruptcy and they can’t take your house? Is that an option? Also, be sure to see if the bank will restructure the loan. I doubt they want one more condo in FL to have to sell!
Doesn’t protect residences that were put up as collateral in a mortgage, as it sounds like the OP’s residence was. As others have said, though, I’ve known people that have stayed in their FL homes for years after default.
Not really clear on why the OP’s folks can’t just rent a cheap place once they get evicted though.
If they need assisted living, Medicaid can usually pick up a good chunk of the expense once they’ve burned through their assets. The rules for setting that up are pretty byzantine, and the assisted living facilites often try and resist it, so you’d probably need to hire someone to help you set that up.
My Grandaddy is in MS, so not far from Florida. Not sure if they are in a major city or not, but if you can find a rural place, it’s cheaper. Essentially he’s got a little apartment, with a kitchen/dining room, bath and bedroom - just like any other apartment. They have a dining room where he can chose to eat two meals a day - lunch and supper. I think it’s right around 1K per month BUT it includes food and utilities, all he pays for extra is cable and phone. The cash we give him is for that, extra groceries, pet care, gas money (his sister owns the car and pays those expenses for insurance and so forth) and some pocket money. He’s a grouchy old man who loves his dog and me and that’s the extent of people and animals he likes, basically, and this isn’t helping. But I adore him, grouchy and all, so it’s what I do. He was going to get rid of the dog to save money, but honestly I think he’d pack it in and die if he didn’t have her to look after, so I’m happy to make sure she is looked after, too.
We’ve had to be so firm with Grandaddy in terms of just laying it out for him. It’s a fine line because of course money = independence. I never ask him what he’s done with it, etc., but I was pretty clear that I send you X dollars per month on this day and if something isn’t paid that’s not my problem BUT if you have a big emergency and require money you should let me know and I’ll fix it. The mention of budgeting is spot on, and something you will have to do for them if they won’t/cant for themselves.
Your parents are much younger, of course. But if I hadn’t laid the ground work at the beginning with clear expectations between myself, the other relatives involved, and Grandaddy, it’d be more sucky than it is now.
The absolute hardest part is not ending up treating your parents like your kids. It evokes the same feelings and it sucks for both of you.
Between this and your friend, you’re having a shit time of it. I’m so sorry.
