My condolences to you and your partner.
One thing. He will need certified copies of the death certificates for various things (Social Security, insurance probate etc.)
When he counts up the number needed, double it. Having been though this with my parents, I would get at least 10 certified copies*. they aren’t that expensive, and it is a lot easier to not have to go back reorder and wait.
*Certified copies usually have a stamp often in purple ink and the county shield that says that this is a true and certified copy of the death cert.
One small piece of advice: tell your partner to get a big sealable folder and throw every piece of paper, any kind of documentation into it. S/he might not be able to organize his/her thoughts right now because of the grief, and might accidentally lose an important document during the initial chaos.
I second this*, especially if he has to handle the estate from across the country. And everyone who wanted proof of death seemed to want a certified copy of the death certificate.
To add to madmonk28’s advice, he needs to start keeping track of who he talks to at banks, credit card companies, etc., writing down names, dates, times and the substance of each conversation. We didn’t start till fairly late in the game and bitterly regretted not having notes about prior conversations and we didn’t have all the unfortunate circumstances that he does.
*Sadly, at least ten for each.
Thanks again, everyone. This is exactly the kind of stuff we needed to know – little tips and tidbits that we wouldn’t have thought of. I’m forwarding this thread to him by email, as I won’t be able to join him for a few days yet.
He and his brother have already started going through the house. Fortunately their father had left a note detailing where to find the important documents and such, as well as listing the household items that have monetary value and how to reach their clergyperson. On the plus side, my SO tells me that their life insurance policy is old enough that the circumstances of their deaths won’t be a bar to its being paid out (I don’t know why the age of the policy would have anything to do with anything, but that’s our understanding at the moment).
As I understand it most life insurance policies have suicide clauses of up to a couple of years so that people in distress can’t purchase a policy and immediately kill themselves for the money, which would essentially be taking advantage of the insurance company.
Someone with more knowledge is welcome to correct me.
Take care of yourselves.
Just in case, you might want to talk with your partner’s doctor to get a recomendation for someone that he might seek counselling with upon his return if he chooses to. I can’t imagine anyone going through this without needing help.
This happened to a friend of mine and he did survive better than I could have thought.
Cecil backs you up on this.
To the OP, my condolences to you and yours. I wouldn’t wish your partner’s situation on anyone.
Licentious Ectomorph, I am so sorry for your and your partner’s loss.
Your partner might also get in touch with a few of his parents’ friends for some additional insight or guidance on what funeral services should be or where to find important papers, if needed.
First off, your partner, and you have my condolences.
Considering the nature of the deaths, If the deceased had a lawyer, consult them. If they did not, retain one. Pay ONLY the debts which are legally required to be paid off, if any. If you think that you are going to have sell off the whole thing to do so, then send any heirlooms off in parcel post to yourself as a gift before you catalogue the estate. Follow the lawyer’s advice on this, but I have seen it done at least three times within my own family. Basically it boils down to: Don’t admit responsibility or willingness to pay any debt that you are not legally obligated to pay.
A good funeral director is a direct gift from beyond. A poor one can be as bad as a used car salesman. If they wanted cremation, then you’ve no need for expensive caskets or other niceties. If you’ve a good one, let him handle as much as possible, and follow his directions. You’ll want to micro-manage, but really it’s better for everyone involved to just go with the flow.
Ditto what other’s have said about the certified death certificates. Don’t put up with any crap from the banks, insurance companies, or other institutions. I suggest you ask to speak the branch manager/supervisor/ title du-jour on duty, and skip the peons. Have the paperwork ready, and the lawyer will be able to help with this. It may require signatures from BOTH brothers, so be ready to have to go together.
Get copies of everything. Make copies of the copies. Make some more.
Don’t be afraid to let him cry.
Again, my condolences.
One more thing, Make appointments for EVERYTHING wherever possible. Your time is too precious during this hard, and sorrowful period to be wasted.
Two years is the standard in the US, although some group insurance might not have a suicide clause at all due to the insured really didn’t “buy” the policy it came with the job.
Also in a murder / suicide the insurance would pay on the murdered spouse regardless of the age of the policy.
There may be an issue with the payment of the proceeds however. If the husband and wife named each other as the beneficiaries, with no contingent beneficiary then the insurance will be paid to the estate and subject to probate. This may result in the payout being held up until the case goes to court.
If there was a person listed as contingent beneficiary, the money will be paid directly to them. It is my understanding that this money will bypass probate.
When the policies are found, read listed who the listed and contingent beneficiaries are. Do be aware that it might have been changed at some point since the issuance of the policy, and not attached to the policy. The insurance company will have records.
Some credit cards have death benefits that cancel the debt. (Lord knows I get enough offers to buy this service from my CC companies.
Call each credit card and see if such coverage is in force.
I don’t have advice, I just wanted to say how sorry I was, Licentious Ectomorph - my condolences to you and your partner.
Thanks again for all the kind words. My partner’s not a Doper, but he knows how much I enjoy it here, and now he can see for himself how supportive and eager to help this community is.
Now he’s asking for advice with regard to the seven-year-old granddaughter. Naturally she won’t be told exactly what happened, but she does know that Grammy and Grampy are gone and never coming back. She’s been told they’re “happy with God in heaven,” not a notion my SO and I subscribe to but she is being raised at least quasi-religious. Her grandparents were a huge part of her life, and for now the extended family is trying to fill the void by keeping her busy and entertained, but what about long-term? I imagine a professional counselor would be in order, and I’m sure their pastor will be involved. Any additional words of wisdom from people who have had to address death with small children would be welcome.
First off, let me extend my own condolances and best wishes to you, your partner, and the rest of the extended family.
I can’t offer any specific advice for dealing with the parents estates except to add my own support for the idea of getting a local lawyer to help deal with the estate, and to get those large numbers of certified copies of the death certificates.
As for the seven year old - talk to a grief counselor. My gut reaction is that while she doesn’t need to know specific details, in the long run the family won’t be doing her any favors to hide the circumstances of her grandparents’ deaths from her. They are not her only source of information - just the one that she will want to trust most. Getting the truth from someone outside the family can get ugly, and it will happen. Just for one possible scenario: a murder-suicide is going to make the news, and it’s probable that one of her playmates will mention it, having heard the story through the media or parents.
It’s always better, IMNSHO, for the dark ugly truths to come from family than from people outside the family. Not least of my reasons for believing this come from my belief that any kid who is callous enough to bring it up will be using the information to hurt or torment your partner’s niece.
Tell her the bare bones, and get her some grief counseling.
I second this.
Not quite the same thing, but I’m sure you will see the connection: one of the most heartwrenching conversations I ever had was with a six-year-old girl. She was terribly broken up about her father’s affair and her parents’ separation and pending divorce. But what made it really bad for her was that she’d been told one of those well-intentioned mendacities about “daddy has to stay at X for a while while mommy moves the family to Y” when she had picked up the full story by overhearing things and putting stuff together – and I was the only adult she could talk to about how she felt, because she understood she had to play along with what her adult relatives were willing to tell her. She dealt relatively well with adjusting to the change, given time, but what hurt was that she couldn’t talk to the people she loved and trusted about what she already knew. You are not doing a child a favor keeping them in the dark to “protect” them.
I seriously expected this to be a joke thread. I’m a little horrified, now.
This is the best advice. I would just add, listen to his silence. If he doesn’t want to talk, then just be there.
Do the parents have any other living relatives? Brothers/Sisters/Parents?
If there is no will then there may be some issues there. Be sure to try and keep the valuables in the house now as some people will just drop by and take stuff.
He’ll need to talk to the insurance people. If it was murder/suicide this could get really complicated. Perhaps a lawyer will be needed. Any info on the reason for the tragedy? A crime of passion? Were they just old and decided to go out together?
and of course you have my condolences.
I see that I’ve neglected to address some specific questions.
I don’t know if there’s a will – my SO hasn’t mentioned it – but I’d be VERY surprised if there weren’t. It might not matter anyway, because I don’t think they had much, if anything, left. Come to think of it, if they left certain valuables or sums of money to their sons, can that be confiscated to pay the creditors, or is it legally the property of the sons? Not that we’re looking to profit, of course, but my SO’s father did owe him a great deal of money, which my SO lent him in an effort to keep him afloat.
My SO was going to the funeral home today to make arrangements for the cremation; I haven’t received any updates on that yet, but there will be a memorial service on Tuesday.
The security of the house is a good thing to keep in mind, as at least one local news outfit reported their exact address.
My SO’s father was a veteran, so that’s a potential resource I’m not sure we would have thought of.
They did belong to a church; the pastor and congregation have been notified, though the extent of the pastor’s involvement in the proceedings is unknown to me.
My SO works for a very large government agency, one in which the employees often need counseling, so I know for certain he’ll be able to avail himself of one.
The parents were mostly estranged from their respective families, so I don’t know how or if they’ll be officially notified, but I’m sure word will spread one way or another.
How does one travel with a suit when one does not have a traveling garment bag? My SO took the only one we have.
You can jury-rig one out of a good hanger and a heavy-duty, extra-long trash bag. Or use several plastic bags from the dry-cleaner’s. OTOH, a cheap (but still serviceable) garment bag, suitable for about ten trips, total, may not be a bad idea.
Similar to this model.
I see that you’re in Northern VA, which means, to me, the DC area. You might be able to get a cheap, few use, garment bag from upper scale hotels. Esp. if you, or your SO, are members in their rewards program - call 'em up, explain that you’re in a bind, and ask if they have any such garment bags they might be able to sell. I’ll admit it’s a bit of a craps shoot - but the worst that will happen is the call gets bumped to a manager and you’ll be told, “No.”
Thanks. I do have a thin plastic garment bag similar to the one you pictured, but I didn’t think it would be much protection if thrown in the luggage hold, and it wouldn’t be very convenient to carry on board. What I’m talking about is an actual piece of luggage designed for carrying a suit, similar to this.
I guess I’ll have to try to get one before I leave.