Improvisor, the difference between Survivor and Thriver is thus: Survivor means you’re not a Victim anymore and you’ve kind of taken control of your life and let go of living a life in fear and submission to others who wish to wield power. You’re functioning in your daily life but are still held back by the skeletons in the closet. You’re just surviving. Thriving is very different and a much more difficult place to get to. I think one must work through the issues and learn to take back personal power, work on control issues, boundaries, saying no when appropriate, managing anger, that sort of thing. Thrivers have problems too, but the problems are normal, everyday problems that everyone has. Thrivers do not have flight-or-fight reactions to normal everyday stressors.
It sounds to me as though your DW might be somewhere between Victim and Survivor. I agree with astro that abuse as a teenager might not be the reason the marriage is shaky – you’ve post a lot of issues to deal with. But it also could be the reason. No, it could be one reason.
Hmmm… let me try to rephrase this a bit and maybe try to break it into 2 chunks.
General Marriage issues: Yes we do have some, and they are not severe but persistent over the past few years. I think the majority of it is caused by the “usual suspects” of improper communication skills, not being perceptive to the others needs/feelings, etc. The stuff that any couple of any background deals with in a relationship. I do not think that the abuse is the source or cause of those issues. That’s just looking for a scapegoat. However, I do think some of the friction in our relationship is a ramification of her childhood. My concern comes into play is about how I am supposed to address those valid concerns I have, and talk about it with her when I am “not supposed to talk about it”. A bit of a Catch 22. That is why I wanted to get some resources about what happens to people that have lived through this and how the healing process happens, etc.
The Abuse Itself: This was primarily the driving factor for the post in the first place (as opposed to other marriage issues). It was more about trying to get information about childhood abuse, the ramifications, the healing, etc., just because I’m starting from square one. I don’t necessarily want to dig into her past and dredge up pain. But, I know about it now. You can’t un-ring that bell and it would be ludicrous for me to not address it in some form. I’ve suspected something for a while, and not talking about it hasn’t been good on me for the past year or so (and that is my issue, not her issue). I don’t want to make her relive her past, but I do want to understand what ‘made her Her’, so to speak, and how that effects her thinking today and into our future. It’s almost seems like to move forward someone has to feel some pain/doubt: either her be reliving at least some of her past, or me by repressing my doubts and concerns (in reality it is probably somewhere in the middle). And I don’t yet know how to navigate that path in a loving, supportive manner that, hopefully, both of us are happier at the end of that journey.
To add a little more color to her and to use your spectrum, Dogzilla… I wouldn’t put her in the victim group at all. She is a very strong, fearless woman, who if you met her “powerless” would the last adjective you’d apply to her. I don’t think much of her past haunts her in normal day-to-day life. Her fight-or-flight reaction comes into play when she starts discussing (or more realistically when I start asking) about her past and her feelings about it, or some of our more heated arguments about why she does things the way she does them. My gut tells me she is somewhere on the Survivor to Thriver continuum. And as one human being that loves another human being, I want to help her thrive as much as possible, as opposed to just survive. That is what I am trying to figure out how to do. So, that leads to the Catch 22 again, of how do I takes steps to help her thrive when I am not supposed to push it with her. I am certainly not eager to dig into it… but I think there is a door open that I can help her thrive. Which kind of ties into one of our “regular” marriage issues in that she has always been a bit closed off and slightly cold (and now I know why… or at least a reason why). I don’t want to be married anymore to a person that is protected by such a big shell (it didn’t bother me in our 20’s, but it bothers me now). Again, my issue not her issue. But, my gut tells me that alot of this shell I have resented for while is because of the abuse. And now I see some potential that she can unburden some of her feelings and finally talk to someone about it (me or a therapist), and I can feel more included in her life and less outside the shell. Probably a naive win-win scenario. And it only works if we are both in the spot to want to do it… which I am not sure of yet.
astro and Dogzilla, I appreciate the replies. You both are responding in a very similar way to how my wife would respond to some of my concerns, and I appreciate the sounding board and the ability to help me clarify some of my thoughts and present some challenges to how I am perceiving things.
Thanks for the links. I hit all those pages already… I spent alot of time reading yesterday.
And from RAINN’s resource pages found a lot more reading as well. Alot of informative and frankly down-right horrifying government websites out there. Jesus… you just look at the stats of abuse and it makes you wonder how we can be such a horrible species.
She sounds awesome btw. I believe I should like to sit and have a beer or four with her.
But yeah, you can’t make someone want to get help and work out issues. You can try to point out, in the most loving, gentle way possible, the few ways you’ve laid out in which this issue seems to affect your marriage. What I’m afraid of is you’d just piss her off because she’s not ready to deal with it and your marriage would break up, which you aren’t quite ready to deal with. Didn’t you say in the OP that she said something to the effect of “if you push it, I will run”? I believe her.
That shell you resent? My spidey sense tells me the abuse is exactly what that’s about. If you push her into therapy before she’s ready, she will reinforce that shell and, as my father would say, give you something to resent. This is a control issue. She wants to control the choice of when or if to get help, she wants to control the decision if she needs help or not. She needs to control these things. (For me, the worst part of either spiritual, sexual, or emotional abuse is that someone else takes control over your choices away from you. It’s one thing to give up control. It’s a whole other critter to forcibly take it from someone.) The shell is what helps her feel safe in the relationship with you. Best not try to fuck with that. If you push her into therapy, for example, you are taking control over the choice away from her. And that will land you, to quote Private Pyle, “in a world of shit.”
So I think your best bet to take steps to help her is to merely help yourself. Educate yourself. Maybe find a therapist and go talk to someone about your concerns; they could have tools to help you. And finally, back off and let her control what she needs to control. Dig me?
When and if she’s ready to get help, you’ll be educated and prepared to be right there, her number one supporter and cheerleader. It’s really the only thing you can do, I think. She has to do all the hard work.
You seem like a nice guy, but I have to tell you, if I was in your wife’s position, the attitude reflected in the post below would drive me (personally) right out of my mind, and would make me massively resentful toward anyone espousing it.
It is not ludicrous at all for you to keep your mouth shut, and believe her 110% if she tells you she does not want to talk about it. Your pushiness, and I use that word advisedly) in feeling you have to dig into this, and handle it, and go on some exploratory mission re how this has impacted her psyche is insanely annoying. You need to respect her boundaries.
To whatever extent you are joined at the hip as a married couple, you are both still individuals and you need to respect her request to not to keep poking this bear.
And that seems to be the rub. I am a nice guy (at least I think so ) and I don’t want to create resentment or pain or anything of the sort.
It seems like in a very general sense there are four outcomes:
Status quo - which is kind of sucky but functional
I talk to her about my feelings and concerns about the afore mentioned ‘shell’ and that my gut feeling leads me to believe the abuse has an effect on that, which has three outcomes:
She doesn’t want to talk about the past and I increase her resentment and distrust (she doesn’t want to continue)
She does talk about her past and I can’t handle that or don’t like who I find there (I don’t want to continue)
She does talk about her past and we can work it out (we both want to continue)
So, three of those outcomes are bad and one is good. Status quo is fine for a while, and I don’t have a problem giving her the breathing room. But how long is that OK… a week, a year, a decade, the next 40 years of our lives? I don’t know. Obviously, we can go to a counselor and talk about other issues we have, but how long before the abuse becomes a question about what motivates her actions? Can we solve other problems without ever even bringing it up to a counselor? Maybe, but that would seem to defeat the purpose of counseling.
It seems like the most prudent course of action is a bit of a waiting game. I will definitely take the time to educate myself and be supportive. And then it comes down to how long is acceptable for the status quo to continue to be the status quo. At some point when do I start resenting being outside her shell, and how long before that resentment becomes toxic? At some point I think I have to throw the dice and say status quo is not going to work for me anymore. We are both intelligent, emotional adults. The odds might not be in our favor, but where is the tipping point where trying to make things better outweigh just giving in?
God, I hate situations where there are no right answers…
Man… I have read that part of your post about 10 times now, and that definitely flipped a switch in my head. I wouldn’t call her a controlling person, but she does like to be in control of things. Hates surprises… even good surprises. And in context of the rest of the info in this thread, it makes very clear sense. Another one of those things that as I start to look back on our history together, even more past actions become clear. Thanks for the insight.
My spidey sense tells me the same thing. But, I get your point about not messing with it. <Is there a sad sighing emoticon?>
My abuse was something I really, really had to deal with rather than ignore. I feel like I am only now, this year beginning to recognize how much I have minimized what happened and how that has hurt me in the long-term. So I may not be the best source of info here.
I respect that it’s important to acknowledge the boundaries and feelings of a trauma survivor as legitimate. It’s perfectly possible that she knows what is best for her and refuses to revisit this because that is truly the most positive choice she can make.
The only thing I really feel I can contribute is a book recommendation. It is one of the most thorough, and I believe, insightful and well-researched books on trauma: Trauma and Recovery by Judith Herman. The book is written for practitioners so it contains a lot of clinical language, but I think it’s an extraordinary read for anyone who wants to really understand. My husband has called it the single most emotionally difficult psychology book he’s ever read (he’s a psych student and has read about a thousand similar books), so prepare to be emotionally blindsided by the information within.
A lie by omission isn’t the same as one by action. While I understand being hurt that she hadn’t told you something so important sooner, my WAG is that at stages it has been a matter of thinking she was fine, not knowing how to bring it up, thinking it was “in the past” and did not affect her present, and perhaps a portion of thinking that you’d reject her if you knew about it.
Bringing it up is a crack in the shell, it shows that she trusts you and hopes that you will not reject her for her past and will help her deal with those present effects that she hoped/wished/wanted to believe weren’t there (but which are very much there, as you are seeing). She’ll open it further at her own speed. And I think it’s great that you’re keeping the pressure off her while doing your best to understand.
I don’t think much of her past haunts her in normal day-to-day life. Her fight-or-flight reaction comes into play when she starts discussing (or more realistically when I start asking) about her past and her feelings about it, or some of our more heated arguments about why she does things the way she does them. My gut tells me she is somewhere on the Survivor to Thriver continuum. And as one human being that loves another human being, I want to help her thrive as much as possible, as opposed to just survive. That is what I am trying to figure out how to do. So, that leads to the Catch 22 again, of how do I takes steps to help her thrive when I am not supposed to push it with her. I am certainly not eager to dig into it… but I think there is a door open that I can help her thrive. Which kind of ties into one of our “regular” marriage issues in that she has always been a bit closed off and slightly cold (and now I know why… or at least a reason why). I don’t want to be married anymore to a person that is protected by such a big shell (it didn’t bother me in our 20’s, but it bothers me now). Again, my issue not her issue. But, my gut tells me that alot of this shell I have resented for while is because of the abuse. And now I see some potential that she can unburden some of her feelings and finally talk to someone about it (me or a therapist), and I can feel more included in her life and less outside the shell. Probably a naive win-win scenario. And it only works if we are both in the spot to want to do it… which I am not sure of yet.
