Need to vent about my marriage

[MandaJo]

A thought:

In the aftermath, post-fight discussion, your wife seems very quick to agree that you were right, that she was wrong, and it seems like you really believe her–you keep citing that as evidence that you WERE entirely in the right.

Is it possible that in the post-fight, she’s telling you what you want to hear? A lot of people do this: they just want the fight to go away. People raised by very authoritarian parents are especially prone to do this. They learn young that whatever the fight is about, however legitimate their grievances are, they will never win. They will be yelled at and berated until they submit, accept total responsibility, and come up with some plausible reason why they behaved that way. And in that moment, they believe everything they are saying, because totally, genuinely destroying their own ego was the only way out, for years.

With people like this, those post-fight conversations that seem so productive are actually useless, because it’s all bullshit designed to make the other person happy. They are just looking for what you want to hear. And then the issue doesn’t get better, because the real issue hasn’t been touched. The passive person doesn’t even know what the real issue is anymore because they’ve distorted their own memory in an attempt to find a version of the story that the other person will accept.

If your wife is like that–very non-confrontational–then what looked to you like “normal parenting” at the dinner table looked to her like a terrible fight, and she got upset because she wanted a happy family dinner. Then, when you talked to her afterwards, you were angry to the point of thinking about leaving her, and so it was urgent that she find a way to take on all the blame and all the pain to convince you to stay. But if this is the case, it won’t really get better, because you really do have a crucial communication problem–for whatever reason, she is telling you what you want to hear, and you are believing her uncritically.

Obviously, you aren’t the only once to blame and you both need to change, but what YOU can do is try to find ways to make sure she feels like she can tell you how she really feels, even if it’s not what you want to hear–that you aren’t going to argue back with her about how she shouldn’t feel that way, that she’s being unfair, that she’s over reacting, whatever. And when she does tell you stuff that makes you feel good and her look bad, think about it critically and ask questions.

[Sterling_Archer]

I’m surprised the comparing of past memories thing has not triggered any discussion. That’s the most unusual and interesting part of this whole thing to me. Kids being picky eaters? Everybody has an opinion, but the problem really had nothing to with that. My wife and I are on the same page as far as that goes.

[Dangerosa]

@Sterling_Archer

I’m surprised the comparing of past memories thing has not triggered any discussion. That’s the most unusual and interesting part of this whole thing to me. Kids being picky eaters? Everybody has an opinion, but the problem really had nothing to with that. My wife and I are on the same page as far as that goes.

That’s because that’s her baggage. She isn’t talking to us about her baggage. And as far as you dealing with those bags for her, that isn’t going to happen. You are going to have to acknowledge her baggage and deal with it - even if you divorce, she’ll still be carrying it.

Unless SHE decides its time to unpack. But you can’t do that for her. And that won’t happen overnight even if she starts now and is really dedicated to it.

[Sterling_Archer]

@MandaJo

A thought:

In the aftermath, post-fight discussion, your wife seems very quick to agree that you were right, that she was wrong, and it seems like you really believe her–you keep citing that as evidence that you WERE entirely in the right.

Is it possible that in the post-fight, she’s telling you what you want to hear? A lot of people do this: they just want the fight to go away. People raised by very authoritarian parents are especially prone to do this. They learn young that whatever the fight is about, however legitimate their grievances are, they will never win. They will be yelled at and berated until they submit, accept total responsibility, and come up with some plausible reason why they behaved that way. And in that moment, they believe everything they are saying, because totally, genuinely destroying their own ego was the only way out, for years.

With people like this, those post-fight conversations that seem so productive are actually useless, because it’s all bullshit designed to make the other person happy. They are just looking for what you want to hear. And then the issue doesn’t get better, because the real issue hasn’t been touched. The passive person doesn’t even know what the real issue is anymore because they’ve distorted their own memory in an attempt to find a version of the story that the other person will accept.

If your wife is like that–very non-confrontational–then what looked to you like “normal parenting” at the dinner table looked to her like a terrible fight, and she got upset because she wanted a happy family dinner. Then, when you talked to her afterwards, you were angry to the point of thinking about leaving her, and so it was urgent that she find a way to take on all the blame and all the pain to convince you to stay. But if this is the case, it won’t really get better, because you really do have a crucial communication problem–for whatever reason, she is telling you what you want to hear, and you are believing her uncritically.

Obviously, you aren’t the only once to blame and you both need to change, but what YOU can do is try to find ways to make sure she feels like she can tell you how she really feels, even if it’s not what you want to hear–that you aren’t going to argue back with her about how she shouldn’t feel that way, that she’s being unfair, that she’s over reacting, whatever. And when she does tell you stuff that makes you feel good and her look bad, think about it critically and ask questions.

Very interesting analysis, thank you. I think the truth lies somewhere in-between. My wife IS a very non-confrontational person in general, and I think the conflict with the boys did upset her, maybe on a level she’s not even aware of. I think her comment toward me in the heat of the moment might have been an attempt to balance things out, if she felt like they were being bullied. She was empathizing with the boys and she wanted to give them a little boost by taking me down a peg.

In the post-fight analysis, normally she is NOT quick to agree and our problems can drag out for a long long time, usually with me capitulating far more than she does and doing lots of apologizing. This time she was very quick to agree with me, and very quick to express that she had all positive feelings about me up until the moment she opened her mouth. I think she might not even be aware of the internal conflict between feeling good towards my actions and negative towards the conflict with the boys.

I really think stuff like this happens quite often. She has an emotion, she reacts to it, then when looking back at it she can’t explain her actions logically, (on a deeper level she realizes she was wrong, but can’t accept that) so the whole situation is redefined with new emotions and often even new actions. It used to happen in our conflicts so often, I would just say “and there’s the twist. I cannot discuss this with you when you keep changing what happened. It is exhausting.”

[Saint_Cad]

I think the OP’s response to me proves my point.

They are allowed to have their own opinions, but their opinions are ridiculous

but of course his are not.

My personal favorite was that there was not time for an honest thank you but there was time to shove a couple bites in his foodhole and punish a kid who had gone in the kitchen to get a loaf of bread.

And to delphica

Thank you for your considerate response.

Which was a post lauding how correct you are. You may not see the pattern here but I bet Stevie Wonder could.

[Rachellelogram]

Either she is not hearing what you say, or she is misconstruing what you say inside her own head. Seems like pretty basic miscommunication. That doesn’t mean it is insurmountable, but it will take a lot of working together to remedy. She needs to work on keeping a level head and not expect you to read her mind. You need to work on forgiveness in the moment, because blowing up back at her accomplishes nothing good (particularly in front of your children). If you practice, it would be perfectly possible (in fact preferable) to keep a level head when she says something that you both know is wrong/irrational.

@HMS_Irruncible

She told you that she wants to hear “thank you”. Evidently saying it once is not sufficient, so say it twice.

I am not unfamiliar with marital issues. If you’re told exactly what’s missing, consider yourself lucky and do it.

She would have found something to criticize regardless. This behavior is classic goalpost-moving. She felt criticized by her children and externalized it onto the closest socially-acceptable target.

@j666

The cook wasn’t too clever in serving a meal of all new stuff to timid eaters, either, though. (Have you researched hypersensitivity to taste? It’s a real thing, not just being picky.)

This was my first thought. There is no single right way to get your children to be more adventurous eaters, but there are many wrong ways to do it. This is one of them.

[Southern_Yankee]

I’m not in any way advocating for divorce in your case, but I have to say I was in a very similar situation myself. I was married 12 years. Have 3 boys (13, 9 and 7 presently.) I was always walking on eggshells around her because any little thing turned into an argument. We finally decided to end the marriage about 3 years ago. I have my boys four days a week, and as hard as it can be to be a single parent, I am much happier. It took some time to get over the shock and sadness of the marriage ending, but we did it amicably and with the kids in mind. We still have disagreements about raising the kids sometimes, but overall it’s reduced my stress levels considerably. Best of luck to you.

[handsomeharry]

@Reluctant_A

Sure he did; he even said so.

(emphasis mine)

That quote came from the OP; he escalated the situation when his wife started behaving as she did. Whether he was 100 percent in the right (which we only have his word for it on that point), he always had the option of, you know, not doing that. You can say that he didn’t start the fight, but I don’t think that you can say that he didn’t do anything wrong.

I think that the consensus, in saying that OP didn’t do anything wrong, means “didn’t do anything wrong to not provoke that madness”. The fight was already on. Everybody knows that. His exploding was irrelevant to the whole issue. OP was commenting on how the fight got started, not about how it went, and your comment obscures the whole point of what to do in regard to the real issue.

[Reluctant_A]

It seemed to me that the OP was commenting on the whole thing, not just how the fight got started. I disagree with your assessment of what the “real issue” is.

[MandaJo]

How this fight goes plays a big role in how the next one starts. If he tends to blow up, she will get nervous and stressed whenever a conflict looms, making it more likely that she says/does something provoking. She’s upset with him for what she thinks is going to happen.