How dare these women speak publicly about their own experiences? :rolleyes:
Why is it important that a drunk guy went up to a woman at a party and made an ass of himself?
I suppose if you don’t think sexual harassment is an important issue causing a lot of harm, you might not think a single incident of such harassment is important. But many of us believe that it’s harmful to society in general (and especially girls and women) that sexual harassment is prevalent and tolerated in many circumstances, and thus it’s important to hold prominent harassers to account publicly for their harassment.
How is it sexual harassment to hit on a woman at a party?
I should say I believe that Ashley Watson’s story is worthy of investigation. I take back saying each accusation is more ridiculous than the last given her story. I wrote this statement while I was in the throes of overwhelming disbelief that anyone takes the latest “accusation” seriously.
If it’s a work-related party, and the harasser is someone with a considerable power differential (even if they work for a related organization and not the exact same one), then they have a moral (and possibly legal, though IANAL) responsibility to not violate professional boundaries.
Not the end of the world. But well worth criticizing, IMO.
She was not at this party as part of her job. His behavior was nothing laudable but not something that indicates a “pattern”. It indicates that Tyson, like billions of other men, has said unattractive things to a disinterested woman at a party. This is not newsworthy. It’s bizarre to me that anyone would care enough to criticize him other than his friends, co-workers, and family.
Many people don’t consider this behavior sexual harassment. Apparently you’re in that category. You’re allowed that opinion, but many of us feel that you are wrong, and such behavior is indeed harmful due to the extreme power differential, and thus worth criticizing. Such behavior shows, IMO, some level of unconscious misogyny and disrespect for women, which is a serious problem in our society. If some women feel unwelcome at parties and other places due to this kind of behavior, then they might have a lower chance at advancement and other professional concerns, as well as a greater likelihood of discouraging other women to get into scientific fields.
Doesn’t mean Tyson ought to be thrown in jail, but that’s well worth criticizing, IMO. You’re allowed to have a different opinion.
I don’t think it’s yet illegal to proposition a co-worker, subordinate or not.
While we’re throwing out opinions …
I don’t think either of the “party” accusations should amount to much from the perspective of someone making a decision about whether to air Cosmos next March. The reason I feel that way is that for right or wrong, the collective general public outside of this message board would summarily shrug off those actions – IOW, there’s be no hue and cry and ratings would be unlikely to be affected. For right or wrong, that’s the calculus taking place.
The Ashley Watson accusation is more problematic, but maybe not by a whole lot. Tyson, very charitably, comes off as a weak-minded old fool and a willing (if thwarted) adulterer. I can see a lot of the public, however, chalking it up as making an off-the-clock pass (even if decidedly unwanted). Tyson didn’t go about it like, say, Matt Lauer – Tyson was not explicit that her continued employment (either on Cosmos or in the industry altogether) is contingent on Watson’s acquiescence. He did not physically force himself upon Watson, which for a lot of the public (again, for right or wrong) is where a critical line is crossed.
Amet’s accusation has had a weak grip on the public’s consciousness because of the time passage and the previous lack of traction in the various media. A pretty big swath of the public just can’t get behind a 30-year-old accusation without corroboration. Off this board, a lot of people will chalk it up to “they were both there experiencing the same event, but with different memories and takeaways of that event.” – IOW, neither party is actively lying.
The real issue for Fox, IMHO, is not that accusations in general exist, but its that four of them exist. Any one of these alone just gets passed over.
Thanks.
If there was any truth to that, it would have been news at the time, and other people who were there would remember it.
I want to point out the more I read, the less convinced I am that Tyson was unaware of any power dynamics in his activities. He seems to be using it to his advantage, and hiding behind “I’m such a big nerd”.
From the same link:
This whole NOVA thing is confusing. It was being filmed but no evidence of that film exists and the people who were allegedly there don’t remember it?
I call BS on that.
(Yeah, I know that doesn’t mean it didn’t happen.)
I don’t consider it sexual harassment because it is not according to every definition I’ve been provided by multiple workplace training programs.
There was no power differential in that circumstance. He had no power over her because she was not professionally dependent upon him. She was apparently able to deny him a speaking engagement several years later.
I don’t know why crudely propositioning a woman represents misogyny. I guess it could be a manifestation of his hatred and disrespect toward women in general or could be that he’s spent a lifetime behaving this way and generally getting what he sees as a positive response.
When these accusations start to fly, it seems like almost any negative sexual interaction the accused had with any woman becomes “evidence” and worthy of publication. It’s a problem because people are going to be left unable to differentiate between sexual harassment, a serious workplace issue that must be addressed and being a turd, a normal part every human’s repertoire of behavior.
“Clearly she misunderstood me when I said ‘I wanted to probe Uranus’”.
My sexual harassment training does not indicate a need for a power imbalance for there to be harassment. Harassment is any unwanted attention, even just once (no pattern required). It can happen between anyone.
Are you saying that an employee repeatedly propositioning their boss wouldn’t be harassment? That me groping my coworker (at the same job status) wouldn’t be harassment? Of my coworker groping me wouldn’t be harassment?
Not mutually exclusive positions.
I think the point is that harassment is so ingrained in our culture that some folks don’t even think it’s being a turd.
I am siding him him, after that.
Not illegal, but the manner could be grounds for a civil suit, which is also legal action.
I doubt the definition of “harassment” as applied is quite this loosely. Or else any noticing of anything ever would be realistically actionable:
“I couldn’t help but notice that you’ve got a cast on your wrist … are you OK? Need to get off of that data entry assignment?”
“I didn’t ask for that attention … off to HR!”