Neil Gaiman accused of being serial sexual abuser

Cafe Society
61

Hi @Darren_Garrison.

I know this is real late to the party, but I was that guy, or at least the first such guy. I want to apologize for posting what sounded a lot more like a threadshit than I meant. And I’m sorry for that launching quite the digression it turned into.

I’d posted my comment from home on my PC then left to go out for the evening and was on my phone off and on the next couple hours, watching this spiral out of control with no practical way for me to deliver a suitable apology / response timely. Now 15 hours later we’re 60 posts in.

Damn. I’m sorry I derailed your thread. That was f***ing impolite of me.


As a general matter I agree completely with you that anyone who drops into a thread about a public person to announce they don’t know who the OP is talking about is announcing their own ignorance. Sometimes proudly, sometimes sheepishly.

My own intent on opening the thread was to learn who Gaiman was. The “sex abuser” headline was catchy enough to want to know more prurient details. Had the OP title been “Neil Gaiman releases new book”, or “Niel Gaiman in hospital” I’d have passed over the thread unopened as irrelevant soap opera about somebody I don’t know of and therefore don’t care about. But you had me at the “sex” part so I clicked.

Once I was reading your OP I noticed that it gave exactly zero introduction or background to this person beyond their name. So anyone else who, like me, was piqued b the “sex” part but didn’t have Gaiman as a household name in their own household would be forced to look him up just as I was.

So as a PSA I dropped a link to the section of his wiki article that I predict will turn into a fairly reliable summary of the facts and rumors about his sexual escapades as the story develops in the public eye. And of course the rest of the article is a potted history of who Gaiman is, what he’s done, and why I (or anyone) would care.

My unstated gentle rebuke to you and secondary purpose for posting was as a suggestion to include more info about your post in your title. Just because you know who you are talking about, there will be some fraction of your potential audience who won’t. e.g

Famed SF & fantasy author Neil Gaiman accused of being serial sexual abuser.

The more context a title provides, the better = more relevant the audience your post will attract.

I just didn’t say that very well. Or at all.

Oops.

I’ll try to do better next time.

62

This is disappointing news.

63

For goddamn real.

64

Yup…that’s the one (book Blade Runner was based on.) Cool title.

65

It provided a seed for an interesting discussion. Otherwise the story is just news of a semi-famous author caught in some sexcapade. Of interest to fans maybe but not much else. Sadly an all too common story these days and not a whole lot to say about it, especially since it seems, at this point, it is accusations and he said/she said so who knows? Not much to say about it unless someone here personally was there and can speak to what happened.

66

Stop apologizing. The thread title contained no useful info about the identity of the person and the OP didn’t write anything in the OP. Another thread confirms this guy is not the most famous fantasy and/or science fiction and/or sci-fi author, living, writing, or otherwise.

67

But it wasn’t about measuring his fame in the literary world, it was about seeing a sentence like “Neil Gaiman accused of being a serial sexual abuser” without any other context and knowing who we’re talking about. If most people don’t read books and therefore don’t know who a writer is, that doesn’t mean they get a “fame handicap”, it just means that writing isn’t a great way to become broadly, household name, need no context when discussing, level famous.

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[Moderating]
Certainly by this point, everyone in this thread knows who Gaiman is, and the question of whether folks ought to have known is getting to be a bit of a hijack (especially since it’s already spawned another thread on who the most famous SF writer is). So let’s drop that topic here, please.

69

He’s done essays and speeches on writing and various writers’ markets. His short stories are mostly fantasy, but I know at least one that’s flat sf. One of his commencement speeches got a lot of play.

He was a journalist before he was a novelist. So he’s got two or three non-fiction books, including a life of Douglas Adams.

He has a very good reading voice.

70

Neil Gaiman reading his own essays on the importance of reading, and libraries, etc. in his audiobook of “The View from the Cheap Seats” has been some of the most inspiration writing I’ve experienced, and I desperately hope it continues to be considered appropriate to share with children - of all ages.

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I have it queued up on my phone.

72

Or Mister Rogers, But not many are up there.

Look, Gaiman is a genius, and his personal life, altho sad to hear about will not effect how much I enjoy his stuff.

Which are… fantasy. Some of his stuff is fantasy /horror, and some is just musings. The problem with Susan was 20 years ago and really isnt very good.

And remember- we are talking these allegations as gospel- in both cases the women concede they were in a consensual relationship with him- but they claim he committed acts they didnt want. Note that he denies those allegations. Likely some truth in both.

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One of my favorite book titles ever. I was disapppointed they changed it for the movie, but I understand marquee size.

Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep

Love that one. The first time it was so intense I almost couldn’t keep reading. Wonderful book.

74

I’m always very skeptical of the “it was an open secret” stuff after it happened to a very well-known acquaintance. This dude had problems…but suddenly after accusations came out there were suddenly all these people saying “everyone knew that was going on”… No they didnt.

75

It was kind of true with Bill Cosby, but I wouldn’t say we knew it. More like I had heard since the mid-to-late 90’s that Cosby drugged women and raped them, though we may have just said he “slept” with them since details were scarce and we weren’t sure what the situations were.

So details were not known, but it is one of the bigger open secrets I’ve seen.

Gaiman? I never heard a word. But I don’t go to conventions. Interacted with him once or twice online, but mostly regarding Terry Pratchett.

76

There were always low voiced suspicions about Gaiman. I doubt many people absolutely know/knew either way but it is stuff I’ve been hearing rumors about for years. But as you note, certainly not rising to any real level of certainty or to the level I felt bad about continuing to support his work.

That he was in an open marriage with Amanda Palmer, and that some of his partners were significantly younger than himself (some younger than his eldest child) was not a secret at all, which is a separate thing. It might not have been widely and publicly broadcast but that is not something we’re just now discovering. If everybody is of age and consent is granted all around, well, that’s going to be between the parties involved.

I mean, he rather admits he did have sexual contact with his current accusers, after all, and they were of age (though not by a lot). Though his take is everything was totally consensual.

And that last part is really where everything hinges. That a few of these relationships/encounters over the years have at times tip-toed or even just stepped over the line of consent would not be surprising, if still totally disappointing. This is the part where there’s been a few rumors whirling around for years but nothing ever really solid.

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So, I’ve been watching Lucifer lately, and this thread is really recontextualizing all of the scenes where women are throwing themselves at him, being charmed by his supernatural charisma.

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Only a twitter response when a mutual contact died.

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Neil Gaiman did not write the comic “Lucifer”. He originated this version of him in Sandman. But the vast characterization of Lucifer in comics comes from the series “Lucifer”

He also, I believe, has nothing to do with the TV series save voicing a character once

80

I’ll take your word on it. I was just basing it off the list posted way upthread.