Although I don’t think it was explained all that clearly, I believe the mistake was that of Galactica to initially notice that the Olympic Carrier was unable to make its last jump and thus leave it behind to fall into Cylon hands. Remember Adama chewing out the young female communications officer who was tasked with keeping a running tally of the civilian ships? Galactica apparently was supposed to be the last to jump, so that it could keep some sort of defensive screen up till the civvie fleet had left the area. The officer miscounted, and wasn’t aware of it till Galactica had reached its next waypoint.
Of course, there probably wouldn’t have been much they could do to save it anyway, but still…
I suppose that this is one of the ethical issues which the show attempts to tackle, but to me the decision is clear and pragmatic. Maybe I’m just talking as a Gothamite… but to my mind, the episode echoed 9/11 a bit. A civilian transport hijacked and flown with murderous intent.
I assumed that the Galactica wouldn’t have had time to board the OC and disable it before being rammed, or that they Cylons would blow the nuke should any rescue attempt be made. In my mind, the civilians were already dead, and saving more lives was at issue.
That’s probably about right. I don’t understand why President-Shakes-Fist needed to put that slip of paper in her pocket, or imply that Apollo should. It wasn’t a mistake.
C’Mon, there’s only, what, 49,000 or so free humans left? After how many billions died during the initial Cylon attack?
Of course there’s going to be doubts and angst over destroying a civillian transport, even if they are 99% sure it was a Cylon Death Trap. But Apollo should get over it; it’s all well and good for the civillian leadership to moan and wail and decry the horribleness of it all; it’s what we generally elect them to do (along with the odd decision, here and there).
But the soldier’s gotta suck it up and drive on; too much emotional baggage gets in the way of the tactical decision loop, causes hesitation, and that causes even more deaths.
Point. Every life has a greater importance as evinced by the president’s board o’ survival. Still… I’d expect that nearly being wiped out as a species would also instill some good ol’ fashioned pragmatism.
Which is why Apollo’s reaction kinda bugged me; I mean, if he was any closer to the OC, he could’ve read the in-flight magazines tucked into the back of the passenger seats on the OC, and he saw an empty ship.
Had I been the writer, I would’ve played it defferently.
The President has doubts and anguish, but Apollo is confident, and has no remorse, leading to sparks and tension between civillian leadership and military, at a time they need it the least.
That just means its an easy decision to make. You don’t have to spend very long to come to the obvious conclusion and no one really did. Yes there was some hesitation, but within a minute the call was made even by the President. The decision is the easy part.
It’s easy to look at your grandmother as a complete vegetable on life support with near-nil chances of ever reviving or, even should that miracle happen, ever really enjoying life again and come to the decision that it’s time to pull the plug. That’s an easy decision because you can be 99% you’re doing the right thing. Doesn’t mean you won’t feel incredible regrets afterward even knowing the stone cold facts.
I guess I just don’t grok this. It wasn’t 99%, it was 100% of a real live nuke. As such it is elevated, in my mind, to kill-or-be-killed. In such a circumstance, I don’t see a moral objection to survival. Not that I don’t undestand worrying or wondering. “But what if we could have saved them? But what if it was a sensor glitch? But what if…”
But unless the series is ‘lying’ to us, there was a Cylon nuke on the OC. No doubt. Clear cut case of survival, in my book.
It was reported during the First Gulf War.
Retreating Iraqis had hostages and loot with them. The air force destroyed them.
Pilots were supposedly crying when they landed.
I seem to recall recently that this was not true.
I was wondering how real pilots would feel about possibly killing people on the Galactic Carrier.
See you seem to be misunderstanding my take on this. We’re not talking in logic or facts but rather the fuzzier realm of the heart. In moments like that you make the call for the good of everyone, because it is a clear cut case of survival. That doesn’t mean you can’t have regrets about being the one who had to make it… it just means you can know they’re irrational. There’s the regret that you couldn’t think of another way. There’s the regret that you were put in the situation. There’s the regret that you’ll never even know whether even one person was left hiding inside and was killed by your rounds.
Guilt is not, and never has been, about logic. Logic is simply used by guilt when it’s handy and, much of the time, we carry even irrational guilt on our backs through our entire lives. Knowing in the head isn’t equivalent to knowing in the heart.
First I’ve heard of it. I have no information on which to comment, one way or the other.
Sorry if I sound like a Military Civilian Liaison Officer.
My unit fired up plenty of retreating Iraqis, with, to my knowledge, zero regret. The way to not get shot was to either don’t shoot at us, or to throw down arms and reach for the sky.
If I were in Apollo’s shoe’s, and saw what he saw through the Olympic Carrier’s windows, I would have no regret.
Gotta agree with ExTank. It’s not like the ships in the convoy have extra space on board- if he didn’t see people at the windows this was clearly at trap.
Though if I had been the Cyclons I would have maybe left a bunch of humans alive for effect (after a quick labotomy). But I suppose they didn’t think an actual eyeball would get on the ship’s windows.
You’re probably thinking of the “Highway of Death” between Basra and Kuwait, where US Air Force aircraft caught a retreating Iraqi convoy and utterly destroyed it.
For some soft-headed reason, people think that they shouldn’t have annihilated the convoy because they were retreating. Retreating, not surrendering. Retreating troops can regroup and fight- until they’ve surrendered, they’re legitimate targets and should be destroyed, regardless of however inept and hapless they may be.
I know what you mean, but while what you’re describing would work with Starbuck, for Apollo it’s out of character. I’m hesitant to say more, to be honest, because I’ve seen nearly the entire series by this point and I really don’t want to spoil it for you, but I think I can safely say that all of the characters develop throughout the series, and all of them have a thing or two to learn – about each other, and about themselves, and about how to deal with their situation. There are no easy choices here.
Oh, and the “sparks and tension” you mentioned? Keep watching.
I mean, I read e-books, but I’m not giving up my paper book collection. For that matter, while I mostly e-mail I’m still sending occassional snail mail. I pay my bills on-line and I have both debit and credit cards, but I still carry cash as well. A new technology does not always completely supplant an old technology.
For goodness sakes, their priest is still using scrolls! Tradition can be a very durable thing.
Nope. “Madame President” is dying of cancer in this series.
Just because they’re more advanced than us in some areas does not mean they are more advanced in all areas.
Such procedures will, of course, carry risks - surgical procedures, no matter how minor, always do. I myself can not tolerate contact lenses, nor can I have laser eye surgery because I am at extremely high risk of suffering several serious side effects from it. In any society, you’ll have at least a few individuals who can’t tolerate certain procedures. (Such as Captain Kirk in Star Trek)
Also, Adama’s glasses are clearly reading glasses - he’s got presbyopia, as do most middle aged humans. Perhaps he finds using reading glasses less of a bother than getting medical work done.
Maybe the folks in the BSG universe have spent so much time and energy fighting the Cylons they haven’t been able to spend as many resources on such luxuries as eliminating eyeglasses.
So… please explain to me why a digital clock is somehow inherently superior to an analog clock? Why would they go to the expense of replacing a perfectly good, functional analog clock with a digital while the analog clock is still entirely adequate to the task at hand?
Certainly they utilize digital timers, countdowns, and clocks when you need very find divisions of time… but you don’t always need that level of preciseness.
And when you get older, young fella, you’ll understand why some of us old fogeys like to keep stuff that’s even older than us around.
That nuke was part of the OC’s armament. Even civilian ships need their own protection. No one mentioned the OC’s nuke being something out of the ordinary.
