New cars....help me wade through this stuff, please!

After 6 years of ex-pat life in Tokyo, I’m ready to return to the US…and one of the first things I’ll need to do is buy a car. Well, a new job will probably come first, but…
Anyway, I was hoping some of you might throw in your two cents worth on what type of car I should buy. I don’t have any particular maker in mind, though my Dad (who is also my mechanic…) has said he would shoot me if I bought a Volkswagon. I guess the best option would be a 2 door sedan, but I definitely want something that I’m going to feel safe in (no tin cans, please.) Any ideas from the land of dopers?


Make it fit.

Your Dad’s a mechanic? What better source of information? Use him!
The painful part is dealing with a hungry car salesman after you decide what you’re interested in.
The Motley Fool people had a great idea (I think) when they pointed out that the moment you set foot on a car lot you are dealing from a position of weakness. They suggest that since you have a computer (with FAX capabilities?) USE IT!
FAX each dealer in a 25 (30, 50) mile area that you’re a sincere customer interested in xxxxx model and you’re FAXing the other folks this same letter about it. You will purchase the car within 30 days to the sales person with best price.
The salesmen who huff up and say “We don’t do business this way” are doing you a favor.
You don’t want to do business their way and they have just eliminated themselves.
The complete instructions go on for three pages and are funny! But they address an area that still flusters most of us–buying a car without getting screwed too badly.

Well, if you give me a bit more information, I’d be happy to shop vicariously through you.

  1. How much do you plan on spending?!?! All other topics are moot until this is settled.

  2. Do you have any predispositions about domestic/japanese/european cars?

  3. Are you firmly decided on a 2-door Coupe (sedans are 4 door by definition IIRC)?

  4. What is a car to you? This is an esoteric question, but it is important to know if you are the type of person who sees a car a way to get from point A to point B. Does a car help define you as a person? Will you be spending a large amount of time in it? Is reliablity the most important thing? Do you get off on bells and whistles?

OK, I can tell you that I am the type of person who loves cars, and must buy a car that I love, not what happens to be cheapest or rated highest in crash and relability tests. Car and Driver’s opinion rates higher than Consumer Report’s.

Some of my opinions on topics.

The BMW 328ci is the worlds most perfect car. I’d prefer the BMW M5 or Ferrari 550 Maranello, but those aren’t realistcally affordable for me. The 328ci is a 2 door Coupe, starting at $28,000, with some of the best safety and perfomance numbers for any car within $10,000 in price. I’d buy it in a heartbeat.

Never buy a Japanese car. I am baised against them, and they all are styled in the most conservative manner possible, and they are always the most underpowered cars in their class. This said, they sell well because of those fatcors. They don’t offend anyones sensibilities and get great gas milage. My biggest complaint with Japanese cars is that you pay more for less car. In the 70s you got high quality compared to US and Euro cars. Now in the 90s this is still believed to be true, but it simply isn’t. The 99 JD Power reports placed more US cars in the top 5 for relability, and the top 10 were almost perfectly distributed amongst the competitors. The #1 car ironically was the Jaguar (a punchline to most unreliable car jokes in the 80s) which is owned and operated by Ford. Toyota was the worst rated Japanese car, BMW, Honda, and Ford all rated in the top 5.

Avoid SUVs unless you are moving to a very poor weather region, or actually want to go offroad. Trucks are a great choice from a price and relability standpoint.

Get a sunroof. Its the best option you’ll ever pay for, with a disc changer being the only close runner up.

Consider a used car. You can get a great deal on a used and certified (returned leases usually) car for new car dealers. Often still warantied. The booming economy has made new cars popular and used seem cheap, so the prices have slipped a bit, and dealers look forward to ditch them. So if reliabilty is something you could afford to risk (good public transportation, flexible job hours) and you don’t put a high priority on getting “your” car, consider it.

All other factors being equal, buy American.

Hope I helped a little.

Sorry, that BMW 328ci starts at $34,000, the 323ci starts at $28,800. The 323ci is the identical car with a smaller engine and less standard options and lower performance tires, wheels, and chassis.

Another point that may be useful, is how big are you? If your large or tall (over 6’), you may not be able to get many vehicles. I, being 6’3", must consider this when shopping.

For my two-cents, if you want to do some price-shopping before you leave the comfort of your computer, you can shop online, and price-compare that way. I didn’t check to see where in the U.S. you live, but most dealers have websites. My financial institution also has a website and provides new/used car pricing information for almost all vehicles out there. Armed with the kind of information I got from the web, I knew exactly what kind of car I wanted and how much I intended to pay when I walked out my front door.

I had three dealers to choose from. I drove to the first one, walked past all the salesmen, and went up to the receptionist, advising her I was there to buy a car and wanted the best salesman…one who wouldn’t waste my time haggling. Two hours after I left home with my old car, I drove back with my new one.

My car of choice? The Toyota Camry. According to my mechanic (and he’s going to be the only one touching my car besides me), it was the most reliable of the two choices I handed him (Honda/Toyota). As far as paying more for less car, I look at it this way:

My mom buys American every other year. She has mechanical problems with her American-made cars while I continue racking up the miles on my Japanese ones. Come trade-in time, I always get a better trade-in value.

Ask your dad, as Doug Bowe suggested. He’s bound to be the best source of information on reliability…if that’s what you’re looking for.

Otherwise, I’d go with the Ferrari. :slight_smile:

do your homework. www.edmunds.com & Consumer Reports Magazine.

When you do get a job, and if you new employers have a credit union, check with them - some offer brokering services so they haggle with the dealer. Even a community credit union might do this for you.

You will probably have to shop around. Some sales persons at dealers treat you like crap, some treat you with respect. Don’t buy from someone who treats you disrespectfully. And, if they give you that “well, gee, I don’t know if my boss will go for this deal - let me go talk to him”, it’s BS.


This sig not Y2K compliant. Happy 1900.

My suggestion: Consider buying a 2-year old used vehicle, which is still under warranty. We almost always do this, and you save 25-40% of the price of a new vehicle, yet the used one will look, feel, and drive identical (if you find a good specimen). The first two years of car ownership are brutal from a depreciation standpoint.

I bought a 2 year old Camaro in 1985 for $9500, when the new ones were selling for $16,000. Drove it for ten years. I sold it for $3,000. Cost of depreciation to me: $650/yr. If I had bought a new one it would have been worth virtually the same amount of money after those ten years, but it would have cost me $1300/yr in depreciation. Huge difference, for essentially two identical vehicles.

We just bought a 1996 Ford Taurus with 45,000 km on it, for $9900. It looks, drives, and smells like a brand-new car. The new Taurus is about $22,000. We’ll probably sell this one after two or three years and buy another 2-year old car then. This strategy will cost us maybe $1000/yr in depreciation, vs $4,000/yr or so to buy a new vehicle and flip it over ever two years. And both vehicles will be under warranty and look new.

Doug Bowe wrote:

If you have not shopped around and you tend to fall in love with objects easily, then I might agree that you’re dealing from a position of weakness. But normally, you’re the one with the money, and it’s the car dealer that wants it, so you should have the power position.

My advice is to shop for two year old cars, and never let yourself get into the mental state where you’re not ready to walk if you don’t get what you want. This is the most important concept in negotiations - if you’re willing to pay more, then a skilled negotiator will find this out. You must be ready to walk away.

Actually the US made 70’s cars that got the bad rap were only the first attempts at small jap like cars. It created sort of halo effect on all American made cars, the rest is just effective jap marketing.

My friends with jap cars NEVER have problems, but they always have $150 to $350 bills every other time they go in for service?!?!?

For the same $$$$, you will get from GM a better performing, longer lasting, cheaper to maintain car.

FOR CHEAP HI-PERFORMANCE:

#1) Camero Z-28
#2) GT Mustang

FOR FAST WITH CLASS:

maybe not as much class as the BMW but 10K less and you will smoke the BMW.
#1) Pontiac Bonneville SSE or Gran Prix
#2) Buick Regal GS
more money if you want BMW like class:
#1) Cadillac STS
#2) Lincoln Mark VIII LSC

That’s all I can come up with now.

Just IMO.

I second the ideas of www.edmunds.com and Consumer Reports. Edmunds also has lots of info about the various ways the salesman will try to get you to pay more for the car and ways to get around them.


But where were the Spiders?

The question really needs more detail - otherwise the number of possible suggestions is too vast. But I’d recommend a manual transmission instead of an automatic. Manuals get better mileage, they’re usually cheaper, usually lighter, always more fun to drive, usually accelerate better with the same engine, and they give you more control over the car. Best to stay clear of slushboxes, IMHO.


peas on earth

I wouldn’t ask a mechanic which one to buy. They often suggest their own cars.

People told me they asked their mechanic what their car is worth it seemed a lot more than they would get for it.

Thanks to DougBowe for inviting me to comment on this topic. I’m in the limousine business, and was formerly in the taxi game. I’m 55 years old, and over the years I’ve bought something like 60-70 cars: some new, mostly used.

It would be good to know more about the OP, in order to give really sage advice. But I’m going to assume that you are between 20 and 35 years of age, and expect to have a moderate, middle-class income.

Other posters have suggested various things to consider, such as your driving habits, the locale you expect to inhabit, etc. You need to consider your anticipated annual mileage, your own mechanical ability (unless you’re living close to your Dad), how many people need to fit into the car comfortably, whether you ever expect to haul a bunch of stuff, and probably a good many more things.

I’ve only owned one foreign car – a 1971 Mazda RX-2, which had the rotary engine. It was a screamer, but not very economical to run, and nobody in the small town I was in had any idea how to work on it. I much prefer American-built cars, and I’ve had them from GM, Ford, Chrysler, and American Motors, back when they were in business. Of the group, I’ve had good ones and bad ones, but for the most part I prefer General Motors-built cars. Being in the limo business, naturally I buy Cadillacs. That may be out of your price range, but if you like a luxury car, and can afford it, you can’t do better than a Caddy. Look around for a used one. You’ll find that there are plenty of good used Cadillacs, most of which were well-maintained.

So, here’s a list of a few things to keep in mind:

  1. IMO, used is better than new, since the original buyer will have absorbed the initial depreciation. You can save a substantial amount of money. Look for one that’s 2-3 years old, with 25 to 30,000 miles on it. Don’t be scared of mileage. I have bought many cars with over 70,000 miles and had good success with them. The car I’m currently driving has 148,000 and it’s fine.
  2. Do your homework first, as others have suggested. Check out cars and prices online. The Kelley Blue Book site (www.kbb.com) gives average prices for any car, based on what’s selling in your zip code. There is also a link on that site which takes you to an online lending source, with very good interest rates (like 8.9% on a used car, last time I checked). It’s a good idea to have your financing in place before you go shopping, since that will define the amount you can spend. Tell the salesman it’s a cash deal. Be very cautious of any financing arrangement he may offer, since the interest rate may be higher than you can get elsewhere. Dealers usually get a kick-back from the lending source. NEVER under ANY circumstances finance the car for longer than 4 years. If you can’t afford the payments on 3 or 4 years maximum, then you need a cheaper car. That fifth year of interest will kill you.
  3. Go to a reputable dealer. Be ready to buy, but at the same time be ready to walk away if you don’t feel that you’re getting the right car at the right price. If ANYTHING about the car, the salesperson, or the dealership doesn’t “feel” right, WALK!
  4. Tell the salesperson what you want. Be flexible as to color and options, but don’t give up something that you really want. If you just must have a tilt wheel and cruise control, don’t buy a car without them, since you’ll regret it later, no matter how good the deal was.
  5. Look at all the obvious stuff: how much tread is on the tires, do they look like they are wearing unevenly, do you see any rust anywhere (including in the trunk), are there dents and dings, is the paint faded, etc. A good mechanic can check the car over thoroughly, and that’s something you should do before buying. Take it to your Dad, or someone with a good reputation. You may have to pay the mechanic as much as $50 to $100 to perform a real inspection, but it’s well worth it. Be sure he puts the car on a lift, and checks thoroughly underneath for any leaks, rust, or signs that the car has been wrecked.
  6. Drive the car – not just around the block, but take your time and really check it out. Get on the freeway, see if it has good acceleration. Does it keep in a straight track down the road, or wander about? Take your hands off the wheel at highway speed, see if it pulls to right or left. If it does, then at the least the front end needs to be aligned. Turn off the radio, open a window, and listen carefully for any strange-sounding noises. When you hit the brakes, do they “grab”? Does it stop smoothly, in a straight line? Do the brakes make any noise? They shouldn’t.
  7. Look the car over very carefully yourself while you’re still at the dealership. Open the radiator cap – do you see rust? Pull the dipstick – it should show oil up to the “full” mark, and the oil should be clean. If it looks cloudy or milky, RUN away from that car! Check the transmission fluid, brake fluid, etc. Keep in mind that the dealer has also checked out this car, if he’s reputable. He has possibly changed the oil, etc. Most likely the engine has been steam-cleaned, so it looks real nice. But that can hide some real problems, which is why you want to go to a good mechanic.
  8. While you’re out driving the car, take it through a car wash and see if it leaks anywhere. If the car has a sunroof, be sure to do the “leak-test” on it.
  9. Under no circumstances should you buy a car at nighttime, or in the rain. You just can’t see all the flaws that a car may have.
  10. Check for signs that the odometer may have been rolled back. For instance, is the brake pedal severely worn down on the side? That could indicate much more use than the odometer shows. It is quite illegal to roll back an odometer, but that doesn’t stop a dealer from doing it.
  11. Find out who owned the car previously. The dealer should be able to tell you that. Even if he says, “Gee – we bought the car at auction, I have no idea who owned it”, insist on having this information. They have the title to the car, and they can tell you. Give that person a call, and ask about the car – did it have any major problems before they got rid of it, and why did they sell it? How many miles were on it at that time? How recently had it been serviced, and where? You can find out a lot from the previous owner, who has no financial interest in telling you a lie.
  12. Be sure that your body fits comfortably in the car, that you can easily reach the controls for air-conditioning, radio, etc. Do your knees bang the underside of the dashboard? Is the seat adjustable so that you’re totally comfortable?
  13. Keep in mind that you’re likely to have the car for at least two or three years, so consider whether you like the color, style, etc. well enough to be happy with it.
  14. Don’t forget that sales tax, license and insurance will have to paid also. If possible, pay that in cash, rather than financing it. Watch out for add-on costs like “dealer prep” – the car ought to be ready to go when you first look at it. Just refuse to pay it. They may add a “Documentary Stamp” fee – probably about $50. That’s a legal fee that you can’t get away from.
  15. DO NOT pay extra for stuff like Scotchguard, paint protector, and the like. Dealers will charge very high fees for these things, and it costs them very little. You can spray Scotchguard on the seats all by yourself, for under $5. Why pay a dealer $150 to do it? Just refuse to pay these charges. If they insist on it, go ahead and walk out. Don’t be ripped off.
  16. Be sure all the options work properly. If a power window won’t go up or down, make them repair it before you take delivery. If there is any flaw, get it fixed. If the tires look pretty bald, insist on a new set. Check to be sure that all the lights, the turn signals, the horn, the wipers, etc. are doing their job properly. Don’t buy a car with obvious flaws.
  17. DO NOT buy a car that has been in a fire or a flood, or that has been “totalled” in a wr

Wow. Thanks everyone, and sorry I wasn’t more specific in my OP. Of course while I would love to pick up a Ferrari or a BMW, I think that may be a bit out of my range…definitely looking for more of a “first car” thing. I have owned foreign and domestic (remember the old Datsun 510? and a crappy little Escort) and don’t have a preference for one or the other. I will definitely look into the used car aspect. The advice on that was sound.

Thanks everyone.


Make it fit.

Don’t forget Autotrader.


“Age is mind over matter; if you don’t mind, it don’t matter.” -Leroy “Satchel” Paige

Smoke the BMW? Unless you got 6 figures to drop it ain’t gonna happen.

Pontiac Bonneville SSE
0-60: 7.5s Braking: 131ft Lateral Acceleration (g): .77 Slalom: 61.2mph
Pontiac Gran Prix
0-60: 6.8s Braking: 131ft Lateral Acceleration (g): .77 Slalom: 61.3mph
Cadillac STS
0-60: 6.8s Braking: 128ft Lateral Acceleration (g): .80 Slalom: 63.8mph
Lincoln LS (They don’t make the Mark VIII anymore)
0-60: 7.2s Braking: 122ft Lateral Acceleration (g): .84 Slalom: 63.2mph

Drum roll…

BMW 328Ci

0-60: 6.2s Braking: 120ft Lateral Acceleration (g): .86 Slalom: 66.8mph

sounds like a consumer reports reader. at the track they are know as the toster testers by the test drivers.

How come my stock non supercharged Bonneville will stay dead even with the 328??

it don’t work that way in real life

I bought my last car as a result of my searching through Trader Online (same thing as Autotrader mentioned above). Several people have mentioned the philosophy I pursue, i.e., buy what you know to be a good car after the worst of the depreciation. I purchased my previous car (BMW) four years old with 70K miles and drove it for 11 years - it was a great car, so when the time rolled around (even good ones get old) I shopped for BMWs. I found hundreds that fit my parameters and wound up buying the only one I even went to look at and I’m quite happy with it after 18 months (BMW 735i w/66,000 miles, $5000).

So I haven’t passed on anything new, yet. Something I learned in the course of that purchase: The fellow I purchased the car from was (is) a consignment dealer, i.e., he sells people’s used cars for them, on a lot. I talked to him on the phone and verified some info, including his price, before I got there. Lo and behold, the price on the sticker was $1000 higher.

After I’d bought the car, I asked him about the sticker price and he explained that if you arrive at his lot just looking, then you are in the market for a car, but you can only physically visit so many lots and see a limited range of vehicles that fit your needs. Even if you’re working through newspaper ads, you’re somewhat limited. But he, and the other pro car sellers, figure that if you’re shopping on the web, you’re seeing just about everything that’s available and they must be more competitive, so they post ads on the web with the low price that they’ll take (yeah, maybe you can dicker with’em a bit yet).

Hope it helps!