Your mass slander of Palestinians as a people is nothing more than bigotry. Most Palestinians are just regular people who don’t commit violence and only want a peaceful chance to live their lives. Just like most Jews and most people anywhere. The violence of a small minority doesn’t remotely justify the murder of tens of thousands of civilians.
Who cares about polling? Opinions don’t warrant death. It’s trivially easy to find support of violence against Palestinians in polls of Israelis. That doesn’t mean Israelis deserve to die. That Hamas is evil doesn’t mean it’s okay for the Israeli government and IDF to do evil things.
Even more simply - is Israel safer with so many Palestinian civilians dead? Not remotely. This war is helping no one but Hamas and Israeli extremists who want endless bloodshed. Functionally speaking, the Israeli government and Hamas are allies. This endless war is accomplishing nothing good and plenty bad.
First, can you provide a cite for the original in arabic.
Second: From wikipedia
In 1977 [Menachem] Begin declared that “between [the [Mediterranean] Sea and the Jordan River there shall only be Israeli sovereignty”.
Third: This is constantly being brought up. I’m sure I’m not the first to make an analogy to the U.S. election in '24. Are every Amarican equally responsible for the foreign policy and actions made by the U.S. since Jan 20th 2025? How about those who voted for Bush in 2004? (And if you think that doesn’t have any bearing on what happens today, why would you then asign the same to the Gazans?)
Yes, this is the horrible truth of a terrorist run nation.
Well, of course Hamas wont allow free elections. But polls keep showing that the people of Gaza support Hamas. There are enough militias that the People could get rid of Hamas if they really wanted too. But due to decades of indoctrination, they support terrorism.
This is bullshit justification that is meant to rationalize forever-oppression. These are desperate people in some of the very worst circumstances humans can be placed in, with family and friends being murdered and maimed every day, and you’re concerned they might have bad opinions? Are you fucking serious? People are people. Palestinians are just people. They’re no better or worse than anyone else. Routinely brutalize them and steal from them and keep them in desperate lives with no future for their kids, and they’re going to act like desperate humans always have.
I don’t know what the long term solution is. But in the short term, the solution is stop brutalizing and killing civilians. The vast majority of Palestinians aren’t doing that. The IDF is, and the Israeli government is making it happen, and tolerating it (or even encouraging it) when settlers do it. Hamas is too. The problem in this region is decidedly not Palestinian civilians; it’s the routine murderers and violators of human rights – the IDF, Israeli government, settlers, Hamas, and other violent extremists.
Indeed, the fact that the People of Gaza are being oppressed and used for political means by a terrorist group is terrible. But what is to be done? Hamas started this.
If the IDF stops, do you honestly think Hamas will stop terrorism?
Exactly.
Yes, when Hamas stops brutalizing and killing civilians, it is likely the IDF will stop also. However, since Hamas disguises itself and hide among the civilians, how can the IDF get rid of the terrorists?
Right it is Hamas, and the over reaction by the corrupt Netanyahu regime.
This did start with a attack into Israel by Hamas, taking hostages, killing children, and committing pointless atrocities.
What should the IDF do to stop terrrorist attacks by Hamas? Seriously, I am asking. Exactly how can the IDF stop those terrorist attacks? No rhetoric, just a solid workable answer.
Because- afaik, the only way to stop them is for the situation get so horrible that the People get rid of Hamas. That is a terrible solution- what is your real solution?
How about the IDF stops killing children? How about they stop killing journalists? How about they stop allowing guards to rape prisoners with no punishment? How about they stop allowing settlers to steal from, brutalize, and murder Palestinian civilians in the West Bank? How about they release Palestinian doctors they’ve arrested and are holding with no charges? And much more.
The existence of Hamas does not justify any of the above violations of human rights.
But Hamas is pathetic. The IDF and settlers are just as bad.
And newsflash here – the IDF has killed tens of thousands of Palestinian civilians and children… way, way more than Hamas. And Hamas still hasn’t been defeated. Not even close. Maybe the IDF should try something other than killing thousands upon thousands? What they’re doing is utterly failing.
What is a “child”? The 16 yo armed Hamas Terrorist? And if Hamas hide in places where they are children, whose fault is it?
Some “Journalists” work with Hamas, but again, when Hamas hides among them, what is to be done? (And I thought you said one in the other thread that the IDF isnt allowing Journalists in, so there is no one to report- how does the IDF kill “journalists” if there are none in Gaza?) And when the IDF makes a strike on a known terrorist hideout, how could the IDF know there are children or journalists there?
But you see- I asked specific questions- with no rhetoric and you havent answered them-
If all you can do is repeat allegations of horrible acts of the IDF, then we are done here.
Exactly what?
No more lists of atrocities, no more rhetoric- exactly what should Israel do? (Okay, voting out that crook Bibi would help- some- but it isnt a solution)
So your justification/rationalization for all the killing, raping, violations of human rights, etc., is… what?
What should the IDF do? Stop killing, raping, violating human rights. That’s not defeating Hamas. Find another way. I don’t have to have the perfect solution to advocate that they stop killing civilians, raping prisoners, and violating human rights. Do you disagree here? You think they should keep killing civilians, allowing rapes, and violating human rights? Is the killing of children, raping, and human rights violations helping to defeat Hamas?
Rhetoric, not a solution. Most lists of atrocities.
It seems that instead of real solutions, the replies are the same - Rhetoric and lists of atrocities. the reason for the lamentable deaths of children has been explained over and over, but you seem to ignore that.
Once you can come up with a real solution, maybe it will be worth debating with you. . But to be fair- Generations of experts and Politicians going back to the formation of Israel and maybe even back to the Bronze age- have been unable to come up with a solution. The ONLY solution, the only one that can work, is what happened in Ireland- a cease of terrorist activities and coming to a peace agreement.
Gaza has to get rid of Hamas. Then IDF will stop. The burden lies on the People of Gaza.
So you’re saying it’s the fault of Palestinian children that they’re being slaughtered? The fault of Palestinians arrested that they’re being raped? The fault of West Bank civilians that they’re brutalized and stolen from?
You said as far as you know the only way to stop Hamas is to make life so horrible for Palestinians that they do something about it. What’s making life so horrible for them is in fact something of the sort.
Your argument is exactly equivalent to “the Gazan people can get rid of Hamas if and only if the IDF stops raping, killing, and violating human rights”. There’s absolutely no difference.
Possibly the worst attempt at a comparison of “what it would be like” that I’ve seen in years. The Allies weren’t bombing ‘munitions factories’. They were bombing cities. The civilian population was the target.
This would also require Israel and the IDF to stop raping prisoners and allowing settlers to terrorize Palestinian civilians (among other terroristic actions). Presumably you’re in favor of this?
Is this what the SDMB has come to? Instead of coming up with HOW to end the violence, the replies to my suggestion to
Is-
These “Have you stopped beating your wife” accusations. I can do those too-
So are you saying that it is okay for Hamas to bomb school busses full of kids and actually on purpose kill small children? That killing some 1200 people and taking 240 hostages- many of whom didnt survive their mistreatment by Hamas terrorist- is the fault of those innocent victims? See how useless those kinds of attack and misrepresentation are?
So, no- that isnt my solution, my solution is
But it appears to me that few here want a solution to the problem. They only want to post a list- often by questionable sources- of supposed IDF atrocities. How will those lists end the violence?
How about, and this is a crazy idea- suggesting a REAL solution? No more pointless rhetoric, no more “are you beating your wife” questions, no most lists of atrocities- in stead a solution.
I have seriously suggested two- 1. Get rid of that Crook Netanyahu (this wont stop the cycle, but it will help.
and 2
Read what I posted.
Do you have a serious suggestion, or just Rhetoric?
I have no “serious suggestions” because i don’t believe i have any influence over either Israel or Hamas. I participate in these threads to learn what’s happening, not to “find a solution”.
Hamas is brutal, both to Israelis and to its own people. Israel is marginally better, in that it’s decent to its own people. But to refuse to see that Israel is brutalizing the Palestinians is to put blinders on your eyes