I’m basing my guess of historical examples, but I agree that is just that, a guess.
I think that’s how he justifies it to himself, but not how Arlan would have really felt. Note that we never see Arlan tell Dunk that he will be his legacy; that’s just what Dunk tells himself, after he is dead.
I think part of the point of the comparison between what Dunk said and the flashbacks is that he loves the man he wishes Arlan was more than the man he actually was.
I agree but that’s because we share a modern Western moral perspective that is far more outcome oriented than the moral perspective of people in other time periods. Certainly, if people in Westeros found out that someone like Dunk was lying about being knighted, they might treat him very poorly as a result.
He wasn’t noble born, but he had a long career serving various nobles in the field. There’s still a wide gulf between people of that social standing and an orphan from Flea Bottom.
“Hedge Knight” means he isn’t in permanent sworn service to any particular liege. It doesn’t necessarily say anything about his birth. I agree that it doesn’t look like Arlan in particular was noble born, but you could certainly have a hedge knight who is of at least some level of nobility if he doesn’t fight for his landed relative for one reason or another. I’d expect that would be far more common than hedge knights who are orphans from Flea Bottom.
All that’s possible… but Arlan’s from Pennytree, and I don’t think being a commoner from a village is particularly more prestigious than a commoner from Flea Bottom. I don’t think we’ve seen anything (and I don’t recall anything) in the text or the show that indicates that Arlan’s background is any less humble than Dunk’s.
There was until very recently, the concept of the “Gentilhombre” (Would gentleman be a correct translation?) as opposed to the mere bourgeois or commoner, I’m currently reading “The three Musketeers” and you can see it reflected there, where if you are of that class (of noble blood even if you don’t have a title) you are special and of a better class of people.
Someone not of that class would not be considered to be knightly material and many would think that a commoner knight is an oxymoron.
In the A Song of Ice and Fire series, there are three basic kinds of knights, from highest to lowest…
-
A landed knight. These are knights that own lands they run as a lord. They are a form of minor nobility. This can potentially be a way for a new noble house to start, as it begins as a knight awarded land for their service, who over generations gains power and prestige to become one of the true noble houses.
-
A sworn/household knight. These are in service to some noble house and while they may or may not be nobility themselves, they have some status and authority inherited by their patron.
-
A hedge knight. This is most often a commoner who has all of the trappings of a knight but little power. They are above the common rabble, but socially are probably on par with merchants and the like. They certainly aren’t nobodies, but how important they are is dependent on the renown they earn with their deeds. Someone like Arlan of Pennytree, who few people seem to have heard or remember, seems like he was probably on the low end of this tier. Still higher than a peasant, but not a lot higher.
In general, hedge knights are not given a lot of respect because it’s assumed that anyone of worth would either gain a noble house as a sponsor or (if they are really spectacular) would earn land for themselves. That’s why even the prostitutes were mocking Dunk (and it didn’t help that Dunk was dressed like a peasant carrying a sword and shield).
The idea of a hedge knight is a romantic one; a person who owes no allegiance to anyone but themselves and their honor, who can go anywhere and perform deeds of heroism. Sort of like a Lone Ranger character without a mask. But the reality is not at all glamorous.
Here is Ser Arlan’s Wiki entry (the Wiki of Ice and Fire, which is as extensive a resource on the whole A Song of Ice and Fire universe as there is):
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Arlan_of_Pennytree
Certainly no indication of anything but humble origins.
I forgot to add, a knight might be someone born to a noble house but is not set to inherit a title or land, and so they are instead trained to be a knight and gain prestige for their house in that way. In that sense, they are a household knight to whatever family they were born into, and their descendants might be raised that way as well. I think it would be odd for someone like this to become a hedge knight, though.
I think most knights, if not all, would be of noble blood.
As we see when Jon Snow easily beats his fellow recruits in the Night Watch, commoners simply do not have the necessary training.
Most commoners, sure. But hedge knights aren’t exactly rare. We meet plenty of hedge knights in the ASOIAF books.
But most hedge knights would be of noble blood too, just not attached to a particular house (because they left, were expelled, the house was Rains of Castamered, or any number of reasons)
I don’t think so. Not the hedge knights in ASOIAF:
https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Hedge_knight#Known_hedge_knights
Only a few of those listed are from landed houses or any other sort of nobility (i.e. noble bastards). Most don’t appear to be related to any noble house at all.
At least in the real world “knight” is a noble title. Even if you weren’t born to a noble house, being knighted makes you part of the nobility. That probably doesn’t count for much to the “real” nobles, but hedge knights are not commoners at all. I don’t think Dunk lying about being knighted is immoral, but it is certainly highly illegal, hence why the master of the lists required SOME sort of proof. Otherwise owning a horse and armor and a likely story would make anyone a noble.
Oh sure. It’s a technicality, but in that world (and sometimes in the real world as well) that kind of technicality is everything.
There were flashbacks to Arlan slapping Dunk after he says something like “You never beat me if I didn’t deserve it.” And since he then adds, “Except that one time when I didn’t deserve it” and he still got slapped, that seems to imply that’s a fairly accurate recounting of their relationship, that he only slapped him without cause once. At least that’s what it looks like for now. Or are you talking about other flashbacks?
I thought that was a nod to the audience that this show isn’t going to be like GOT or especially HOTD. As Dunk is figuring out what to do with his life, the wind picks up, the camera trucks in closer on him, he gets this steely look on his face staring into the distance as the GOT/HOTD theme begins to swell, it’s getting all dramatic… and then he’s pooping. Like we’re going to shit on the other shows because this one is going to be more lighthearted, playful even.
Or at least, it seems that way after 2 episodes.
That’s what I was thinking when Dunk kept banging his head on the doorframe.
Yeah, plus his penchant for walking away and then realizing he’s going in the wrong direction and backtracking the other way.
Some historical context on Hedge Knights.
I believe it went “he never beat me”, cut to flashback of him being beat repeatedly, back to Dunk “unless I deserved it” cut to another slap “except for that one time I really didn’t”.