New-ish "free speech" app, Parler

@running_coach & @Northern_Piper:

IIRC there are specific Federal statutes that make threatening the Pres and certain other high officials a crime. It’s certainly plausible the VP is on that same statutory list.

The critical question I’m not qualified to answer is when does a statement rise to the statute’s definition of a threat? The statute certainly predates the internet, and may well have significant problems dealing with “Will no one rid me of this meddlesome priest?” calls to action that are heard by 100 million people, a material number of whom are not well-balanced. Even a tiny fraction of 100 million is a big number.

Sure, there are federal statutes like that, but they have to be interpreted consistently with the First Amendment.

We obviously need a “sarcasm” tag on the new boards.

:wink:

That’s the ‘honest conservative’ whose existence at this point is a hotly debated topic among Cryptozoologists. :slight_smile:

I think this is only temporary. That is, Parler may be effectively finished, but I don’t think it’ll be long before some deep-pockets pro-insurrectionists launch a new app store that caters exclusively to those who are poised to or have already jumped down that rabbit hole.

They already are on my facebook.

I support Twitter’s decision to ban Trump. After 1/6/21 it was clear that he simply couldn’t be trusted with so large a platform. I didn’t see his suspension as an infringement of his freedom of speech so much as a (long overdue) decision to simply treat him like any other user. There’s nothing wrong with a platform choosing not to give a user extra latitude.

I’m much more worried about Amazon, Google, and Apple’s joint decision to essentially delete Parler. I don’t use Parler and, from what I understand, it’s not the kind of site I’d enjoy. But it seems to me that what these tech giants have done (and bear with me here, because I’m not the most technically minded of people) is essentially decide to treat Parler as a publisher, responsible for any and all content that anyone may post on it. That’s clearly not what it’s designed for. It’s supposed to be a hosting service, just like Twitter.

There’s no doubt that there’s lots of unpleasant people on Parler saying lots of unpleasant things. But there are plenty of equally unpleasant people on Twitter saying equally unpleasant things. On Friday, the Chinese Government (@ChineseEmbinUS) tweeted:

Study shows that in the process of eradicating extremism, the minds of Uygur women in Xinjiang were emancipated and gender equality and reproductive health were promoted, making them no longer baby-making machines. They are more confident and independent

For the avoidance of doubt I’d just like to clarify that the Chinese government used Twitter to boast about forcibly sterilizing Uighur women. The tweet was deleted, but the @ChineseEmbinUS account is still fully operational. Much of the insalubrious content on Parler consists of bigots ranting about immigrants or swapping the latest Q-Anon fantasies. As unseemly as that is, it pales into insignificance compared to an organ of a dictatorship literally bragging about an ethnic cleansing program that they’re carrying out in broad daylight.

And, of course, on top of that, you’ve got accounts like @LouisFarrakhan, who has posted such delightful insights as I’m not an anti-Semite. I’m anti-Termite, as well as a video entitled Thoroughly and completely unmasking the Satanic Jew and the Synagogue of Satan. His account is still up and running. Indeed, he has nearly 350,000 followers, at least some of whom, I presume, hold equally vile accounts of their own. And let’s not forget Twitter’s well publicized problem with Islamic extremism.

The difference, of course, between Twitter and Parler, is that Twitter is simply much too big and much too powerful for anyone else to shut down. As far as I’m aware, there exists no mechanism short of government intervention which could inhibit Twitter’s ability to function. When it comes to Twitter, might, unfortunately, seems to make right.

And that’s why the sanctioning of Parler bothers me. Any social media platform is going to have trolls. And the larger the platform, the more trolls it’ll inevitably attract. There now exists a market in which every entrant save one can be punished for this.

In effect, this decision means it’s no longer possible to compete with Twitter. How could you? Let’s say you start your own micro-blogging platform. You may have the best of intentions, but if you’re in any way successful you’re eventually going to have your fair share of bigots, shitposters, and trolls. It’s inevitable. You may take every measure at your disposal to ban them as quickly as you can, but there’s no way you’ll ever be able to keep up. This is just a reality of running a social media platform. The government recognizes this, and that’s why, in the eyes of the law, sites like Twitter and Parler are classed as platforms and not publishers. If they were held legally liable for everything their users posted it would be impossible for them to function.

However, thanks to this precedent, Big Tech will always have an excuse to shut down smaller, weaker social media sites before they can pose a credible threat to Twitter. This effectively places Twitter’s primacy beyond the reach of market forces, which means there’s no practical corrective to Twitter’s influence on our politics.

I don’t dispute Amazon, Google, and Apple’s legal right to take the action they have, but from an ethical perspective it’s very troubling. It sets a dangerous precedent, one far more harmful than anything that could’ve feasibly resulted from just leaving Parler alone.

My understanding is that Amazon banned parlor not because of the racism and hate speech, but because of the calls for violence.

The Parler.com people themselves seem to be of the opinion that this “deletion” will be only temporary, according to GreenWyvern’s link:

Parler managers and users may find themselves inconvenienced by not having the convenient features and massive reach of the Big Tech platforms available to them, but that doesn’t mean that they’re being “deleted” or “finished” in the sense of not being able to exist on the internet at all.

That’s not to say that I don’t see any problems with Big Tech essential monopoly power, because I do and always have. But this is the model that conservatives’ market-fundamentalism ideology was just fine with, until a lot of their ideas started losing market share and having to face the market consequences of massive unpopularity.

I really can’t muster up that much sympathy for them having to fall back on the smaller and more fragmented world of indie tech because they’ve convinced Big Tech that they’re too toxic for its brand.

While I share your concerns with Big Tech’s lack of oversite, what is happening here is actually the point you felt was okay for Trump. Amazon, Apple, and Google stopped giving Parler latitude. If you read through the language of the complaints from the providers, they have had multiple complaints that Parler was not policing content that was clearly against the terms of service for the providers, most specifically inciting violence. And that Parlers (laughable) plans to use volunteers to self-police content was unworkable.
So yeah, they did exactly what they did to Trump: stopped giving them extra time to fix their pre-existing problems. Do I find that the timeframe was, perhaps, politically accelerated? Sure do. But as for Google and Apple, all they are doing is saying they won’t provide access to the app - but existing apps would continue to work, and browser access would have been unaffected. Apple and google just wouldn’t be affiliated in any way with the content.
Amazon’s actions are much more heavy handed, as it kills all access until Parler finds another host. But Amazon got to that point the same way they’ve gotten to that point in other fields - by providing easy access at reasonable cost. They have a lot of the market because of it, but it isn’t a monopoly (at least not yet). The problem is, if you are a hosting service, and Parler is in desperate need, do you a) ignore it out of perceived (?) virtue or b) rub your hands in glee and charge all the market will bear?
Either way, I have no doubts at all that Parler will find a new host, but it’s going to hurt them, and I suspect that other providers are going to demand at least some degree of applicable oversight to keep them from in turn being economically pressured. And that will cause Parler users to turn on Parler, just the way they turn on anyone who crosses their perceived holy grail of Hate Speech, Trumpism, Qanon or other cult.

It’s more than an inconvenience.

If the app is not being hosted by app stores they can never update it or grow it further, and that will kill it, even if they find hosting in Russia or somewhere.

“Every vendor from text message services to email providers to our lawyers all ditched us too on the same day,” Matze said today on Fox News.

Matze conceded that the bans could put the company out of business

The app is just a front-end for the website. It may add some mild convenience features but you don’t fundamentally need the app to access the site. Any web browser will do.

Amazon’s move is more significant here, since it leaves Parler without a place to even host their web site. And even if they move to Russia or wherever, US providers could choose not to index them via search engines, or even redirect DNS accesses to elsewhere (i.e. parler dot com would no longer point to their site).

An app that seditionists were hoping to use to commit violent acts against Americans will not be supported by Google, Apple or Amazon, so they’ll have to go it alone.

Boo fucking hoo.

And Parler itself is just a front end for Russian disinformation agencies.

LMFAO

aww poor baby so sad

Nice word choice tho, eh.

Parler’s image upload feature did not remove EXIF data in the process. It was all retained and publicly available.

They appear to have (partially) doxxed their own userbase.

Considering the likelihood of Russian involvement in designing and implementing the platform, it’s an open question whether this was a matter of ignorance and technological incompetence, or a deliberate choice to maximize information-harvesting channels.

I don’t have the ability (or inclination) to vet their claims, but there might be an easier explanation on the funding side, given your other post: they developed the site on the cheap by only hiring utterly incompetent developers, and way too few of them. The lack of EXIF stripping, or rate limiting, or even minimal moderation capability may simply be a side effect of it being completely half-assed from beginning to end.

To be honest, I don’t understand a lot of this, but it appears that before Parler went down, it was hacked.

If I am reading this correctly, these Internet Warriors created a number of admin accouts in Parler, due to the lack of any email authorization or any other basic security towards the end. Then they set it up to all be downloaded…
Well, here’s the reddit thread.
All Parler user data is being downloaded as we speak! : ParlerWatch (reddit.com)

All of this data, the videos, the images, the posts, the metadata (including the GEO location of all images and videos, and the connections to the accounts that posted it, has been (since midnight) being uploaded to various cloud drives and storage arrays for the purposes of Archiving this information, for later retrieval by law enforcement, by the public, by Open Source Intelligence communities.
And the kicker… is this: all of this information was thought to be secure and private by individuals who were making the posts. A significant number of those individuals went through the process of being a “Verified Citizen” on Parler. What does that mean?
It means they uploaded a picture of the front and back of their REAL State Driver’s License… Let that sink in for a second.

Oh…my goodness. Parler users are well and truly screwed.

Rank amateurs, more likely.

If they wanted to keep the EXIF data they could; they could strip it from the images that the public (and law enforcement) see and save it in a DB for whatever nefarious purposes of their own.

This is hilarious:

Okta is an identity verifier, so they were likely handling some aspect of the Parler login process, like 2-factor authentication or password resets. But Parler couldn’t even be arsed to buy a commercial version of the product, so Okta just terminated them. Not that a paid version would have bought them much more time, but they’d likely have at least some recourse instead of Okta just flipping the off switch.