New show: Forever

I actually got the impression that the woman had hurt him; not the other way around. In fact, I thought it was pretty clear. Funny. :slight_smile:

Was anyone else expecting the jazz piano teacher in the '50s to be someone of historical significance or pertinent to the current case?

Yeah, when he was going off to make his fortune in Paris, I expected him to say 'You call me Herbie now. Herbie Nichols!" or something.

Yeah. Wasn’t he on one of the albums Henry was rifling through? I think this is the show’s biggest flaw, melding the historical flashbacks into the main story. It seems they miss a lot of opportunities to do something interesting and instead softball them.

Hey, new episode last night! I liked this. It wasn’t just the lack of “jazz fellatio” (loved that phrase).

The flashbacks *added *a little to the story, relating Henry’s need to hide his “condition” with Dwight/Colin’s artificial persona, rather than feeling afterthoughty. Henry trying to bleach grey into his hair was almost poignant, attempting to artificially age himself so his wife and son didn’t have to move so often (though I thought they could have played up the grey a bit more).

I snickered at Henry saying he needed to come clean with Jo and admit he was Hank Morgan from Ohio - Henry loosening up! Also joshing about centuries, like he’s realizing he can say the truth without people automatically believing it and turning him into a lab experiment. And Jo saying she’ll be there for him when he’s ready to open up - nice character development there. Of course, she hasn’t a clue what the big secret is, but it’s a sign that she respects him as a person - she knows he’s got some big secret/burden but she’s not prying, she’s respecting his privacy

VERY sinister ending in the cab. Also heavy, heavy, pound-you-over-the-head implication that the Big Secret will be out of the bag next week - but they’ve teased us before. And who, exactly, finds out? Jo… or Lucas? Lucas knowing and Jo not would be a sort of perverse twist, wouldn’t it? I want Jo to find out.

Lucas would not be in the least bit surprised. Was it better or worse for the fiancee knowing the truth about his turnaround? Wouldn’t it be better to think that you’ve had a lucky escape from a scoundrel that to know you were deeply loved and your love was killed because of it?

That war vet was pretty persistant, wasn’t he? I mean, if I saw somebody blown to bits in front of me and then see someone who looks exactly like that person who I know died 20 years ago, I’m sure i wouldn’t assume it was the dead guy.

Also, that explains the world traveler bit from earlier in the season. Still doesn’t explain Abe’s accent.

IMO, knowing that your relationship was a sham would be way more devastating than knowing that Very Bad Things happened but at least you weren’t crazy. Thinking someone loved you and finding out you were wrong can impair your ability to trust your instincts – with all kinds of people, not just potential romantic partners – for a LONG time*. Neither situation is good, and both would make it hard to form another serious relationship, but I think “it was all a lie” would be worse. So I think Henry was right to reassure the fiancee that Dwight/Colin really did love her.
*Not that I’m speaking from experience or anything. I…uh…read that somewhere. Yeah, that’s it.

Sometime who looked like the dead AND hadn’t aged a day (well, maybe a touch of grey but his face would be exactly the same). It might be Morgan “survived” some additional dodgey explosions/wounds/firefights that already had some people suspicious.

Or it could be that by that time Henry was so gun-shy about being discovered that he reacted much more strongly than the situation warranted. Given some of what had happened to him (so far we know about the incarceration in Bedlam, a hanging, and a probable vivisection) having a hair-trigger about his Big Secret is somewhat understandable.

Really, Henry probably has a whopping case of PTSD that he compensates for a lot, but it entirely untreated.

It could be that Abe learned to speak English in NYC and thus acquired one of the NYC accents. Who knows what his accent would be in some other language?

I was speaking of the old vet’s reaction, not Henry’s. But I guess it was needed for effect. Still, I’m wondering about the time line. No time now to get into it. Maybe after work.

Thoroughly enjoyed last night’s episode.

First, Henry died again. I realize this is not something Henry looks forward to (he even stated that he still feared death) but for the show’s premise it needs to happen from time to time.

The whole “climbing naked out of the East River in NYC” issue was addressed - Henry, care to explain this naked swimming in the middle of the night thing? And the getting arrested thing? To your boss, yet. Nice dodge on the explanation, and the ribbing by the rest of the precinct while our usually dapper-dressed doctor was ambling around in clearly borrowed clothing.

Nice tension with Henry’s watch in the car, and again, Ioan Gryffudd’s body language spoke volumes while he sat in the car. Immortal or not, death is still traumatic for him. Given what happened at Bedlam, going to a shrink is also clearly traumatic though, fortunately, it has changed for the better over time.

Nice to see Burn Gorman again - a bit ironic that in Torchwood he played a somewhat creepy doctor/ME and now he’s playing a somewhat creepy doctor to an ME… except for the reveal at the end.

I did think that everyone believing Henry about having a deranged stalker was rather sudden, on the other hand, he did have alibis and it was different than the expected “Henry is a suspect and probably in jail” tact usually taken for such stories.

I am disappointed that Jo is still not in on the Big Secret, but overall satisfied with the episode.

Loved this EP. But I’m not exactly sure if the crazy guy did the killing or did Adam do the killing.

I think Crazy Guy. I think Adam entered the cab afterward, then killed himself (and Henry) but that’s all. I think we’re supposed to think he’s dangerous, but in reality he’s not killing at all. He may be a bit mad, though.

Oh, Adam is definitely “killing” - he’s killed Henry twice.

I also think Adam is the one who killed the cab driver Raj Patel. Definitely Adam was driving the cab, shot himself in the head, then his body disappeared, thereby proving he has the same resurrective immortality Henry does. Crazy Guy probably sliced up Richard Smite, but that really is ambiguous.

Nice reference to the Highlander - wonder if that influenced Crazy Guy bringing a sword to Henry and asking to be killed?

I also liked Lucas “translating” what Henry said while talking to Jo and what’s-his-name, the other cop you see a lot of.

I got the impression Adam is doing most of the killing and was blaming it on crazy guy. Nice and neat that way - Henry can’t correct anyone’s impressions without revealing his secret, and the murders are pinned on the dead guy so Adam is off scott-free.

As soon as I saw the therapist, I thought “man, that has to be a bad guy”. Then he helped us look up crazy guy’s records (which, as someone that has to care about HIPAA, gave me fits), and I figured the show was just messing with me. Then it turned out he WAS the killer!

I too liked the Highlander reference. Surprised it took this long. Also surprised Henry hasn’t heard of it.

I wonder how many times Jo will have to tell Henry he can share his secret with her before he does it. I get that he was locked up and tortured at an Asylum when he told Nora, and that would be a big deal. But, he also got over it enough to tell Abigail. He can get over it enough to tell Jo. Heck, she’d probably be able to handle it better than Abigail as it is, because it would explain basically all of his weird behavior.

He just needs to actually kill himself in front of her instead of threatening to do so like he did with Nora.

I hope not. Adam’s actor is a fine thespian and I would like it if they gave him some gravitas. Giving him a different morality than normal would be a good idea, a 2000 year old man will by necessity have that. Making him an amoral guy who kills for fun? Bad writing.

Adam told Henry it was a good thing Crazy Guy was dead because he would definitely kill again and I don’t think Adam would lie. He’d have no reason. Still, whether Adam actually used the knife or not, he’s responsible for both of those deaths.

The chop-off-my-head-like-a-Highlander-boss move made me laugh. I don’t think I was supposed to be laughing at that point. The end surprised the hell out of me. That rarely happens with network TV shows.

I got the subtext that Adam had actually done the killings and was really saying “oooh, I, mean, that serial killer would definitely have killed more people if you hadn’t done things my way. I, I mean, the serial killer, wouldn’t like you disobeying”. In the same way a mob boss says “hmm, Paolo should be convinced to stop selling in our turf” instead of saying “go whack Paolo and dump him in the river”.

I really wonder what Adam thinks he’s getting Henry to do. Henry is probably his best chance for a friend through the ages, and he’s doing a good job and making Henry hate him. Unless his plan is to break Henry mentally and have a servant for the ages.

I just had a thought. Henry still has to see him. Didn’t Adam say it was up to him to decide when Henry was done with therapy?

The therapy is voluntary, I believe. Boss Cop was just pushing him into it because she wants him to be ok and not look weird. In any case, I think Henry could request a different therapist with no penalty.

But, this is a good way for the show to set up the two of them talking on a regular basis.

We don’t actually know how Abigail found out Henry was immortal, do we? He could have died in front of her, she might have discovered it… there are alternatives to him telling her.

But yes, Henry would have to kill himself in front of Jo. She’s too evidence-based to believe it otherwise.

Killing Henry was, arguably, not done for fun. Slicing Henry’s throat that one time was arguably a mercy, as Henry would die anyone and it stopped him from lingering in pain. Also protected his secret, which is something Henry wanted at the time.

The second time was to prove a point, I think.

Adam probably does have a different morality. Killing another immortal isn’t the same as killing a mortal because the immortal comes back. Killing a mortal…? We don’t really know how Adam regards normal people.

He seems to have crafted a situation where, as the officer said, it would be a “righteous kill”. Why? We don’t know…yet.

Adam is also responsible for Henry killing Crazy Guy and stopping him - which is not the same as setting up a mortal because, no matter what, Henry was going to live. I think Adam recognizes Henry wants to be a good guy, and this is his way of engineering it.

See, that’s why I want this show to live up to its promise - at its best it’s surprising and original and interesting.

I think Boss Cop might be worried the eccentric but brilliant ME might be heading towards a breakdown. She’s trying to take care of one of her people.

“Regular” for Adam might be once a decade you know.