Congrats!
I did all the dailies and I’m at 199 tokens. cry I wanted my meta achievement today!
Grrrrr:mad:
Congrats.
I’ve done it every day so far on my two main toons, so I’m what… 0 for 22. Not including the last two years…
I have gotten two remotes and two tankards, though.
Grats, you lucky sum’bitch.
Did you remember your keg deliveries?
Oh, Blizzard, Blizzard…why??
This is seriously going to mess up my new 10 man H-LK group. Since I go to the alt 25-man every Friday (and don’t plan to give that up, since I’m one of the main tanks for it), I won’t be able to tank the H-LK group because of this stupid idea.
I know they were planning to do it for Cata, but apparently it’s dropping at the next patch…and without the thing that made it palatable (equal loot levels in 10 and 25, with the only difference being the number of badges and the number of items dropped). But that won’t hit until Cata.
Color me annoyed. :mad:
Summary for those of us who can’t get to WI from work, Infovore?
ETA: I’m assuming it’s something like making 10/25 a toggle like regular/Heroic is now. Is it for sure being retroactively applied to existing Wrath raids, though? They didn’t change ToC to toggles instead of separate lockouts when they changed the paradigm for ICC, for example.
Yes, and yes.
As of 4.0.1 if you kill Marrowgar in 10-man, for example, you cannot kill him in 25-man the same week. According to the article, at least. Here’s part of the blue post:
And I’m not sure about this part…
Finally, to answer your ToC question,
Thanks Jas.
Infovore, it looks like you’re not as screwed as you think you might be. You could tank up to 11/12 for the 25-man group on regular, and then do just the LK with the 10-man group, on Heroic or regular. Of course, that means the 10-man group has to clear everything up to what you do with the 25-man group without you. … Wait, do you have to do the wing-end bosses on Heroic to unlock LK? I think you might. Crap.
Yeah, this is shitty and stupid. Mainly because of the fact that Heroic still locks you to a single raid ID. Post to the forums to tell them it’s stupid–if there’s enough backlash, they’ll change it. (Remember what happened with RealID?)
Jas: The part you’re not sure about means that Heroic versions just work like current raid lockouts. If you started on a different raid ID with at least one Heroic boss down, you can’t participate in a different raid ID’s Heroic kills.
Guess our 25-man ICC GDKP runs are dead as of 4.0.1, since we normally run them with folks that clear 11/12 ICC10HM every week.
I guess I’d sum it up as:
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Good for casual guilds or PuGs doing normal modes. No more getting saved to one boss and being done. Although the benefit is rather mitigated by the fact that it’s very rare to find a PuG that is at the correct point - how many “LFM ICC10 at BQL” do you see?
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Bad for people that want to run both 10s and 25s. Just not possible anymore. Go go alts, I guess. Or, perhaps more likely, bye bye 25s outside of top guilds.
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Bad for people that PuG heroic modes. Not sure it will be feasible. This is possibly a good thing.
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Potentially good for guilds that have folks miss a night, but way more-so for 25-man guilds (since you can break your raid down into 10s).
Here’s what I’d prefer:
Toons are saved to bosses, but only in the sense that you can’t get loot from them. You kill Marrowgar in 25s, roll on some 264 gear. You can still go in with your 10-man heroic group and kill him again, but are ineligible for any loot.
The downside: potential exploitation by boosting toons through raids. My solution: at least half the raid (more?) must be eligible for loot or no loot will drop.
I would keep heroic modes along the lines outlined here - one kill per week on any difficulty, to avoid gaming the progression fights.
My ulterior selfish reason for wanting this - meta achievements, especially ones that are really hard to stop if you fail (Sindra, for example). I’d love to be able to zone back into ICC10 tomorrow with a fresh raid, and try that achievement again, even if there was no loot available.
Here’s a question I have:
Let’s say I kill 4 bosses in ICC10 on Tuesday. SFG kills 6 on Wednesday. The two of us recruit 8 others for an ICC10 on Thursday. How many bosses are dead when we zone in? 6? What if we pull in someone that has killed 11 already this week? I’m guessing the boss is dead if anybody in the raid has killed them this week, right?
I hope they have the UI nice and clean, or this could get confusing…
Still open for massive exploitation for kill credits and/or achievements. Imagine if a guild like mine could sell multiple runs for people’s ICC drakes every week. We’d be raking in the cash.
And that’s exactly why they won’t let you do it.
My semi-informed guess is that you must have killed the **same **bosses as the other people in the raid for it to work.
Actually, now that I think about it, this likely guarantees I won’t get my ICC drake (if 4.0.1 drops this Tuesday, maybe if it drops the following Tuesday). At least 3 of our regulars (including the RL) raid a 25-man heroic ICC every week, and will be unavailable for the 10-man to finish up the last two achievements… maybe I can beg them to skip the 25 for a week or something… or at least leave Sindragosa and LK up.
Makes sense. There is still a way around it, but it’s unwieldy (don’t allow a boss kill to generate an achievement if any raid members already have the achievement and have killed the boss already this lockout - this lets you sell the achievement once a week).
The kill credit is moot, because I would only allow it for normal modes, and progression is heroic-mode only, IMO.
It’s just a bit unfortunate that externalities like achievements and progression rankings limit the amount of game play that others get. If I want to play the same level over and over in most games I can do so - not in WoW.
Yup. Just sucks that one guy’s graphics card blowing up for two weeks and the RL and her boyfriend’s one-week vacation is gonna leave me >this close< to finally actually finishing a raid. Oh well… my own fault for taking time off from the 10-mans, we had almost a full year to get this shit done.
That sounds really confusing. And yeah, that’s going to put paid to a lot of multi-pugging.
Hell, my guild has been running Ulduar twice – once on 25 for the weekly frost, and once on 10 for trying to clear it.
We’re going to need spreadsheets to track it all. ><
As for Jas’s question about how many bosses will be dead, I would say based on my experience to date it depends on who zones in first – that’ll be the raid ID that goes up.
–
Last night was really frustrating. Our second raid team struggled a LOT on BQL – for one thing, I’m rusty healing, and for another thing, the BloodQueen addon was bugging rather badly and telling DPS to bite a healer or tank. 
I couldn’t find the right combination of settings that would make it talk sense so we eventually just tried going without it.
Lowest we got with or without the addon was 22%, so we called it.
Yeah, unfortunately I’m screwed. The alt raid does almost everything on heroic, and nobody wants to change that because there’s still gear we need. Nobody needs gear in 10 man anymore, not even on heroic (except from LK, of course). And yeah, you do have to do the wing-end bosses on heroic to unlock LK.
sigh
Really, the more I think about this, the shittier it is. They’re shoehorning a raid designed under separate 10- and 25-man lockouts into the new system, and it’s not going to fucking work.
I plan to post to the official forums when I get home from work detailing exactly why I think it’s a bad idea, with examples of how it will hurt the majority of players. If you agree, I suggest that you do the same.
That still lets people run the same boss multiple times to get the achievement down.
That’s all *you *care about. People still pay for Kingslayer, and that’s normal-mode. And people ask for links of regular bosskills for PUGs, too.
Wait, is 4.0.1 supposed to be dropping that soon? I thought we had at least a few more weeks. Maybe not. I really need to get around to learning about the new talent trees and other changes I guess.
Best educated guesses are saying it’s dropping Oct. 5 or Oct. 12. So we don’t have long if this is true.
This basically screws over anyone trying to get or help get Bane of the Fallen King in our guild, SFG. Once we get Light of Dawn, there’s no way we’re not going to farm it for as long as possible, which means that Bane runs will be regulated strictly to alts, and there’s no way to even do a Bane kill if there are drops you still need in 25-man. This is a terrible, terrible idea.
I have seen reports that the current arena season could end as early as October 12, and I suspect that 4.0.1 is going to closely related to that. Dunno if both will happen in the same patch though…
Yeah, this doesn’t make me happy. The comments on wow.com have also pointed out that being locked to bosses will encourage people to drop after a boss, which is going to make pugging even more of a nightmare than it already is.
And the rumors I’ve heard are leaning toward Oct 12 as The Day. Bah. This is making me kind of uninterested in getting my 74 pally the rest of the way to 80… soon to be 85.
GOG.com has finally got the rights to put Planescape Torment up, which I am totally getting since my physical copies have gotten corrupted, and that might be my opiate to tide me over until Cata if this turns out to be as much of a raid mess as you guys are making it out to be.
I’m not even really a raider. I do VoA and the weekly when I can, but that’s about it…and this new raid lock system looks bad to me. Way to complicated too try to put together much of anything casual/pug/guild-with-extra-slots raidwise trying to figure out who is locked to what boss in which instance in what phase of the moon when Jupiter aligns with Mars or whatever.