Yeah… it really should have been a kill. It was really frustrating, to be honest. And sitting here looking over the logs it’s getting even more frustrating. On that 11% wipe, our best ranged DPS (mage) got the first bite, and wound up doing around 25k for the fight. Total fight length (to get to 11%) - 3:21. All of the other fights some warlock would ramp up threat and get the first bite, and then either top out around 12k DPS or miss a bite and get MC’ed… and we’d hit the enrage.
I tried to make it clear to them to just wait for the first bite to go out and they were all “but then we won’t make the enrage!!!”. Seems pretty clear from the logs that having that first bite go to a good player (and one that never gets MC’ed) is a far better strat…
I’m pretty sure you want to find a way to use Last Word if you can. That proc is pretty fancy - and pretty much 100% uptime. If you need some expertise to get threat up you can always gem for a socket bonus or use the glove enchant.
Same story happened to me over the last month or two (except the gear part, my DK isn’t that geared). I just love tanking on him, and have been spending way more time on that (even at much lower progression) than on my main’s ICC25HM stuff.
As for personal stuff - well, we got our first Shadowmourne completed this weekend, so that was good times!
1.) Nitpick: That’s the Frost badge belt, not a T10 belt. WotLK tiers only involve helms, chests, legs, shoulders, and hands. A piece is only considered a tier piece if it’s part of a matched set with a bonus.
2.) Acquiring Frost badges: You’re correct that you can get a maximum of 19 per week outside of ICC. Everything else requires killing ICC bosses and/or performing the ICC raid weeklies, which give an extra five Frost each, as well as a chance for some extra loot like an epic gem or item. (These are quests that are separate from the normal weekly raid and are randomly assigned by lockout ID. There is one per wing, not including the LK himself, for a total of four possible weeklies. One involves killing a miniboss before the Gunship; one involves killing Rot and Fester within half an hour of each other; one involves finishing the Blood wing in an hour; and one involves putting a stacking debuff on Sindragosa.)
That would be awesome, but I highly doubt it would ever happen–it’s too much of a baked-in class benefit. Even Shamans have to spend two talent points to make their travel form instant-cast.
Cut your stuff about heirlooms, but note that you can also purchase heirloom items with the stuff you get for doing Argent Tourney quests; you need to be Exalted with all 5 of your side’s factions plus the Argent Crusade plus have done the full Tourney quest set for all 5 factions as well to unlock the quartermaster; that’s about a full month’s worth of daily quests ground out.
On the Emblems of Frost front, yeah, the frosty VOA boss drops 2 Emblems per fight, so it’s reasonably easy to get 23/week; to get more than that you need to do ICC or the Ruby Sanctum (which nobody seems to be PUGing at all, which surprises me, given that (a) extra frosties and (b) not very long. I guess it’s too damn hard to be worth it).
Also, the last holiday boss (summer fire festival) dropped 2 Frost Emblems once per day; they’ll probably do the same thing for BrewFest.
Actually, the one time I did that one, we killed Rot first, then sent in a volunteer to go get killed by Fester while everyone else stood outside the doors, after which point we were able to go turn in the quest (because I guess you only need one person in your group to have both smells on him). Might have been patched since then.
Ick, yeah. Do you have Hunters and/or Rogues in the raid that you can have them send extra threat to the person you want topping the meter after the tanks? Is one of your tanks a Prot War that they can Vig the Warlocks, or do you have a Paladin who could Salv them?
Alternatively: Is there any way you can reinforce the behavior you want? E.g., some way to punish someone who goes crazy on DPS and gets bitten before they should, or punish someone who lets themself get MC’d without a valid excuse? (And pretty much the only valid excuse is “the addon assigning bites broke,” and even then, in 10-man, it shouldn’t be too hard to figure out who still needs to be bitten.) Whether that’s requiring them to contribute some time to farming mats for the gbank, or putting them at the bottom of the priority list for the next X pieces of gear they roll on, or what–just something so that there are consequences for their actions.
TBQH, Expertise isn’t even that great of a threat stat, and it’s not much of an avoidance one now that most bosses no longer Parry-haste. Strength is *much *better, which IIRC is what you get off the Last Word proc.
Woohoo, congrats! Have you decided yet how you’re going to split up the goodies after you kill LK with it?
:smack: I completely forgot about VoA. Yes, that’s two more badges each for Toravon on 10 and 25. RS is more badges, but that’s a higher gear level than ICC (and a tricky fight besides), so if you’re not in ICC yet, you won’t be running RS, either.
We can hope!
:smack::smack: Yes, yes I did. So that’s five potential weeklies.
AFAIK you can still bug it out like that. The *point *of the quest is to kill them both within the time limit, though. (Before the first debuff wears off or is cleared by a death.)
Unfortunately, this isn’t a raid I’m involved in leading in any way. And our guild is at that point where we have no way to “punish” anyone for anything. It’s a casual(ish) guild, and a casual run, and any sort of “you messed up, get better” talk is… well… problematic. Doubly so when a few of the players are pugs (because we don’t have enough to reliably field 25), and the mage in question is one of the pugs, and there is other drama because he comes to some 10-mans too (because he’s really good, and fun to play with) in place of some guildies…
Basically, it is what it is, and I need to get better about compartmentalizing the more serious runs I have toons in with the more laid-back ones. For Cairne 9/12 ICC25 normal is actually pretty good (only one Horde-side LK25 kill, and most progressed Horde guild is something like 5-6/12 heroic 25).
Oh, and there isn’t any way to do loot-type punishments because it’s basically a free-roll system (yeah, I know… and they even have a “main greed” level for rolling which means if any DPS even slightly want an item there is no way for me, as a main-spec tank, to get any DPS gear no matter how many plate items drop, even though I end up DPS’ing many of the fights).
Best bet is probably what you mentioned. Surreptitiously have a warrior Vigilance one of the locks and a Pally Salv the other one.
Yeah, that’s probably right - the STR proc should overcome any loss of expertise threat-wise.
I guess I just really like to be hit and exp capped… for some reason it makes me feel like I know what I’m doing, even if it isn’t always optimal. Nothing makes me happier than seeing perfectly at-cap stats in those fields. Man, I’m a nerd.
/sigh… well, it looks like the GM and RL didn’t take the initiative on this one (even though I posted about it on the guild boards a long time ago). So it sounds like the Shadowmourne bearer is basically taking the one item he wants most (hopefully only one…) and nothing has been decided about the other loot. On the one hand it’s depressing because we all put in a ton of effort to get it for him, and are getting nothing in return. On the other hand, it’s just a game.
But don’t get me started on how he didn’t get charged any GP at all for the shards or finishing the weapon, and thus still has the highest priority in the raid (and got the first 277 token, along with other 277 loot).
…That’s weird. I could swear that I posted some ICC squee, but I don’t see it when I go back. (Fnord.)
Team Friday extended the ICC10 lock from last week and we downed BQL (whee!). I was running the BloodQueen addon (I think you might have recced that, SFG) for the raid, and it made the fight super easy when you don’t have people yelling on Vent at the same time about being down/being bitten/needing to bite. It only took us a couple tries or so to down her.
Our first time in the Frostwing Halls and we got to 22% on Sindragosa (eee!), and I got a couple nifty screenshots of my hunter stuck mid-shot in an ice block. I got picked often enough that I was musing in /raid about how scenic it was in there. Whereas our resident curmudgeon retorted that it was damn cold in his. (He’s undead, how should *he *know?) We just need to work on ice block placement and Blistering Cold during p3, and then we should be home free.
I have to say though… I kinda feel a bit sorry for Sindy, being driven mad and killed wasn’t exactly her own idea, and then she gets rezzed as a frostwyrm. I’m thinking of it as putting her out of her misery.
As for the Rot/Fester Blight quest, nope, that trick still works.
All you have to do is convince the RL that fucking up in certain ways will automatically knock X points off your next X rolls, or put you at the absolute bottom of the roll regardless of what number came up, so that you only get the piece if no one else wants it. There’s no reason the RL couldn’t modify the loot rules in this way, as long as they tell everybody up front before they get saved to the raid ID.
More than, I believe.
Dude… I use a spreadsheet. Believe me–I feel ya.
Ugh. Sounds like you’ve got a big mess on your hands. This person has been benefitting from the efforts of 24 other people, and those people deserve to get something back. Here’s what I think you should do:
1.) The person already got Shadowmourne. They don’t need anything else. All of the items should go to other people from the guild. Some guilds use free rolls; my guild used GDKP, open to anyone in the guild, including trial members.
2.) Shadowmourne should *absolutely *cost GP; and not just cost, but cost more than anything else in the game. IIRC, in my previous guild, shards did not cost points, but completing Shadowmourne itself was a huge hit. I think it was something like 250 DKP, when the next highest items were 150 or 200.
Good luck convincing your guild leadership on either of these points. Maybe if you observed how negatively it’s impacting morale… I mean, honestly, there’s no way in hell it’s fair for one person to get Shadowmourne *and *an item from the chest *and *more gear than everyone else. That’s almost disgustingly selfish (and a good demonstration of why I hate DKP systems versus Loot Councils–they *encourage *people to think of themselves first and the raid second).
Happiness is a pickup/alt ICC10 with your raiding guild that nets you BOTH of the ICC10 il251 one-hand axes (Frost Giant’s Cleaver/Bone Warden’s Splitter). Quirk of fate that I was the only Shaman on the run, and the only non-rogue melee DPS on the run.
Skammer, my wife has been having issues with that sort of thing, as a Retri Paladin who is on approximately 3 T9 pieces. What’s doubly funny is that when she’s in a non-random RDF she can bang out respectable DPS in Pit of Saron–this is the biggest reason why I hate gearscore, I know a lot of people who are much better or much worse (used to be me, I’ll cop to it) than their GS would suggest.
Acknowledging in advance that my gems and enchants need work and I’m raising money as fast as I can to afford that, what should I be hunting for in terms of waist and wrist slots as a melee DPS. Suggestions for pickup raids are even welcome.
I was tanking on my Prot warrior and yes I was using Vigilance on the warlock that was highest on my Omen. We had 5 warlocks so it just went to one of the other ones, not sure we even though about Salving the others.
Yeah you get 100 strength from the proc. I slapped a Mongoose enchant on it and plan to give it a go in a few randoms. Kind of surprised at the expertise not really being all that important.
Well then I guess I’m a nerd too. I’ve always tried to be hit capped and at least close to expertise capped, to the point where I have a couple +20 expertise gems in my gear. Suppose I can just replace those with stam gems now and hope for a warrior mark next week so I can grab the tier legs.
Honestly I kind of like it when he and his friend fill in for our 25’s, certainly makes the atmosphere more fun and relaxed. Not to mention they all know their stuff and… well… they pay attention.
I feel your pain, I’ve been asked to DPS quite a bit more and I havn’t been able to roll on many, if any, DPS upgrades from 25 man because there’s always one person who rolls Main Greed. Suppose I could ask to roll mainspec DPS, but I know if I do Rotface will drop that necklace.
Grats on BQL and fighting Sindy for the first time lizardling. One fun thing I like to do when target for an ice block is to do an emote and see if I can get frozen that way. Most of the time I end up forgetting and just stand there like a dork.
Yeah, agreed. When our guild got its first Shadowmourne, we agonized over how to distribute the loot from the chest. There was never any question of the SM holder getting any over the rest of the group–the assumption was that he got to get a legendary (for which he was charged 0 GP–the SM recipients were chosen by the officers based on who was interested, who had best attendance, and who was least likely to leave after they got it (even so, our first shard recipient left the guild when he had like 15 shards, so that set us back)).
Initially, the officers decided to do a straight auction for each item, with all proceeds being divided up between all the other raid members who didn’t get anything. Some people (those with a lot of money, or those who wanted a lot of money and had little/no interest in the items) liked this idea, but others (who didn’t have a lot of money and had RL obligations that made them unable to spend a lot of out-of-raid time farming for gold) were very vocally upset about it and felt it violated the spirit of the guild–this was especially true after one raid member started making rumblings about buying gold just so he could win the auction. Many wanted a straight roll, but the officers felt that this would result in people getting things they didn’t really want just to get something. I (and I think one of the officers about the same time in their forums) suggested that we just let people divide up into groups and each roll on the one item they most wanted. All non-app members of the raiding team (including the SM winner) would be eligible. This is what we ended up going with, and so far it has worked very well through two SMs.
I honestly can’t believe the attitude of some SM winners, who feel that “I did all the work to get it, so I should get the benefit!” Some guilds feel this way too! But until that person can figure out how to get all the infusion quests done, get all the souls, and get all the shards without benefit of a 25 man raid group, then he or she did not do all the work alone. In a good, solid guild, the person should feel privileged that his/her guild has let him have this really cool weapon, and not bitch about not getting to take all the toys home.
Thanks for all the Shadowmourne suggestions. I’ve started a conversation with our RL and we’ll work something out. Knowing how others have done it, and what the problems were (never even thought about the buying gold aspect!) is very helpful.
My proposal was a free-roll, one-win-per-person system where people that didn’t roll on a given item were given a pretty significant EP bonus (rewarding you for not rolling on something you didn’t really want) and those that won an item were charged GP for it (so if you roll on everything and win a flashy item you likely won’t be getting a T10 277 token or LK weapon for awhile).
I also mentioned the gold auction system, but the buying gold possibility (and the rich vs. poor characters facet, especially for a group made up of players that don’t play very often in general) makes me think that’s a bad idea.
Anything wrong with that first suggestion you can think of?
Congrats! Aren’t Rogues and Enh Shammies the only melee using 1Hers these days, anyway? (Or is Frost DW DPS viable?)
It’s not that Expertise is a *bad *stat as much as Strength is a *better *one, as far as Threat goes.
Ideally, you should be gemming 100% for Stamina, short of what you need to activate your meta gem. Of course, that’s also the recommendation for someone who’s focusing on progression fights, because Effective Health is what determines your time to live in a worst-case scenario. That means you want to stack as much Stamina and Armor as possible. (Balancing the two stats can vary from encounter to encounter; mitigating physical damage with lots of Armor can be godly on some fights, but on a fight with magical damage–which ignores armor–Stamina is the unchallenged king.)
These stat needs may vary based on what kind of content you’re running. If it’s mostly five-mans and fights you have on farm, then yeah, you can absolutely go for other stats–like ones for threat and DPS.
Depending on how much flexibility you have with your tier pieces: Don’t get the legs. If you want the four-piece bonus, use head/chest/hands/shoulders. The BOE BS-made leggings are *amazing *because of all the armor, if you can afford to have them made.
I remember you mentioning this system, and I believe it’s the most fair–especially since I assume that once someone has won an item from one SM, they’re not allowed to roll on another (unless you get to the point where everybody in the raid has won something).
This times a billion. Somebody who ignores the contributions of 24+ other people–and the sacrifices made by everybody else in the raid who could use Shadowmourne but doesn’t have one yet, i.e., the people you’re getting shards over–is nobody I ever want to raid with.
I don’t like tying EP and GP into it. These are vanity items. They shouldn’t affect the ability of your players to get actual gear–which is what’s going to happen. Players who care the most about improving their characters are going to feel obligated not to roll on anything, because they might miss out on an upgrade they need later. Alternatively, someone who doesn’t care about improving themself might still roll on everything, because they don’t care about getting better to help the raid progress. Too, the characters that are the most “rich” in terms of gear will feel more comfortable rolling on items if they know that they don’t need more upgrades, or if the upgrades they do need don’t have much competition for them.
Hmm. Good points all. I’m trying to think of a way to encourage people not to roll for things they don’t really want… but I guess the real point is that for vanity items everybody kinda wants something, and it’s hard to measure that desire outside of a willingness to spend time (i.e., gold) on it.
I do like the “dividing into groups based on what you want” idea, in that there is a higher chance of you getting the item you personally desire. I just wonder if there is any way to reward players for not rolling on anything, if they don’t feel the items are worth much to them (maybe a gbank gold donation to the non-rollers, or the rollers pay an entry fee that is divided amongst the non-rollers?).
This is likely going to be our only Shadowmourne, considering how slowly shards are acquired even in heroic mode. Unless Cata is even further off than we think.
Honestly, I think the “pick one item to roll on” method is the best, with no barriers to entry. If the fees or rewards are EP/GP based, you’re running into gearing problems again. If they’re money based, they’ll either be so trivially low that they won’t act as a legitimate guarantee of interest, or they’ll be high enough that some people who really want an item won’t roll on it. Unless maybe you could think of some sort of vanity reward for not rolling–like getting a number of other vanity items and handing them out randomly to people who choose not to roll on a SM chest item. (Things like BOE pets, Frostweave or Glacial bags, fun outfits made by Tailoring or LW, etc.)
I can confirm that, pending whatever they do from here to release. I’ll have to make a “trackon trackoff” macro for my hunter, rather than just make sure she doesn’t have “track humanoids” on before going to town… oh the horror! :angst:
Unfortunately, your new offhand axe is not particularly good for enhancement due to its fast swing speed. Your best options for 10 man would be Abomination Knuckles from Rotface, Gutbuster from Festergut or a second Frost Giant’s Cleaver.
For your belt slot, Linked Scourge Vertebrae from Marrowgar 10 is perfectly itemized for enhancement, and pretty easy to get since it’s not as attractive to hunters with all that haste. Likewise with Icecrown Rampart Bracers from gunship for your wrist slot.
Some general gemming advice so you can plan in advance. Use 1 Nightmare Tear in a blue slot that will give you the best socket bonus to activate your meta, and gem the rest for your best stat as long as you’re above the hit and expertise cap, which will depend on your gear. For your gear level, AP/haste is probably the best way to go, with emphasis on AP.
(He’s undead, how should *he *know?) We just need to work on ice block placement and Blistering Cold during p3, and then we should be home free.