New York Times hires unapologetic racist writer

[GIGObuster]

@SlackerInc

There are two tracks here. You are arguing for TNC being right, and I’ll be happy to dipute that in a moment. But there’s a meta-point we were disputing, which was whether it makes sense for TNC to be in the “of all people” category, where there are fainting couches pulled out if anyone declares him to be a polarizing figure who is risky to be associated with if you are a politician trying to appeal to swing voters in Middle America. You can understand that the latter is true even if you completely agree with his radical ideology.

On the merits: the argument you seem to be making (via quotes from others that don’t appear when I quote your post) is that his “rage” and bitterness are justifiable and only to be expected given the black experience in America. But this ignores an important point Chait made: polling consistently shows that African Americans are the most optimistic about the present and future of America, much more so than whites. Or at least that was true when TNC wrote what I quoted. So he is the opposite of representative of that black experience.

Not sure what that shows. As as you pointed out, I also can’t find polls from Pew that are more recent.

Gallup, more recently, does report the optimism; but not after Trump was elected:

In U.S., Blacks' Life Optimism More Likely to Go Unmet

After 2012, however, blacks’ satisfaction ratings dropped back to the lowest level since 2008 and remained there throughout Obama’s second term. Meanwhile, life satisfaction for the remaining three groups either slightly improved or held steady. Whites’ life satisfaction ratings reached a nine-year high during Obama’s last year in office, in 2016.

Gallup also noticed that something is amiss when titled that article: "In U.S., Blacks’ Life Optimism More Likely to Go Unmet"

[SlackerInc]

The optimism may indeed have diminished: in the wake of Trump’s election, it would be strange if it had not. But the fact remains that at the time TNC wrote that bit about “until this country crumbles into dust” or whatever it was, those sentiments were markedly out of step with those of African Americans at large.

What are you trying to say with the “more likely to go unmet” business? That black people are less perspicacious than people of other races? How dare you!

[iiandyiiii]

@SlackerInc

You know, Andy, I actually held out some hope that you would be less disingenuous than this—god knows why, given your past postings. Somehow I thought you might actually respond along the lines of “Okay, fine: I hadn’t seen this quote, so I take it back about your not characterizing his writing fairly, although even Chait was surprised by it so I think it’s fair to note that it isn’t representative of his earlier work. And I understand why he feels this way…” Etc.

Instead, you are still stubbornly insisting that this:

is not a fair reading of this:

C’mon, man.

Yes, because it’s toddler-esque silliness trying to describe a nuanced portrayal of real history. And if you think I’m being disingenuous, then feel fucking free to stop engaging with me. All I’m doing is responding with my actual, real thoughts on the issue.

And I challenged the lumping in of TNC with Jeong because TNC hasn’t said anything that could remotely or reasonably be said to be hateful towards white people.

[iiandyiiii]

A nuanced and accurate portrayal of TNC’s writings: White supremacism was a very significant principle for the founding of the US, and is deeply written into its political and cultural/societal DNA, and Coates is very skeptical that this will be entirely overcome, such that this white supremacism is likely to continue to do harm to black people for as long as the country exists.

[SlackerInc]

Yeah, that’s the opposite of my characterization. Riiight. :rolleyes:

@Blalron

It may please you watch this 2016 video where Bill Clinton argues with Black Lives Matter protestors.

Thanks, that was satisfying as hell—except for the painful reminder that PA ultimately played a key part in electing Trump. But I would definitely not hate to see more pushback like that.

[iiandyiiii]

@SlackerInc

Yeah, that’s the opposite of my characterization. Riiight. :rolleyes:

Great job taking down that straw man!

[GIGObuster]

@SlackerInc

The optimism may indeed have diminished: in the wake of Trump’s election, it would be strange if it had not. But the fact remains that at the time TNC wrote that bit about “until this country crumbles into dust” or whatever it was, those sentiments were markedly out of step with those of African Americans at large.

What are you trying to say with the “more likely to go unmet” business? That black people are less perspicacious than people of other races? How dare you!

That was the pollster, not me, read it again.

What I see was that that optimism you are talking about does not mean much when white people, and in fact all Americas had that optimism and more. As Gallup reported “Blacks in the U.S. have consistently rated their current satisfaction with their lives lower than have whites” **and that survey did not show otherwise. **

[GIGObuster]

Regarding satisfaction polls, here I have to compare this issue with the issue of how satisfied Americans are with their health care, numbers are very high for satisfaction with health care regardless if its coming from employers or the ACA. Yet we all know that there are many problems and Health care in America needs to become sustainable or face an implosion.

Clearly there has been an improvement in many issues for African Americans and other minorities, but there are many that chronically deny that there is a lot that remains to improve, and that is what people like TNC and Mychal Denzel Smith are complaining about.

[Banquet_Bear]

@SlackerInc

Yeah, that’s the opposite of my characterization. Riiight. :rolleyes:

…do you honestly believe that the statement:

“America has rarely been our ally. Very often it has been our nemesis.”

Is fairly and correctly characterized by this statement?

“the U.S. is a bullshit country?”

Because if you are reading the first statement and coming up with the second then the problem isn’t with anything Ta-Nehisi Coates has said.

[SlackerInc]

@Banquet_Bear

…do you honestly believe that the statement:

“America has rarely been our ally. Very often it has been our nemesis.”

Is fairly and correctly characterized by this statement?

“the U.S. is a bullshit country?”

Because if you are reading the first statement and coming up with the second then the problem isn’t with anything Ta-Nehisi Coates has said.

So you are saying, what, that it’s less radioactive to call the U.S. a “nemesis”? I dunno. The only way that has a chance to be true is if no one knows what “nemesis” means.

[SlackerInc]

ETA: GIGO, that Gallup sentence is questionable. The present day scores were a virtual tie, while the gap on five year outlook was sizable.

[Banquet_Bear]

@SlackerInc

So you are saying, what, that it’s less radioactive to call the U.S. a “nemesis”? I dunno. The only way that has a chance to be true is if no one knows what “nemesis” means.

…you know that “nemesis” doesn’t mean “bullshit” right?

The question is are you fairly and correctly characterizing Ta-Nehisi Coates position?

It seems pretty fucking obvious that you are not. It was clearly not an accurate paraphrase.

We don’t need to run Ta-Nehisi Coates’s words through the “slacker-translator.” Its only a paragraph. We can literally read exactly what he wrote.

[SlackerInc]

I’m absolutely happy to retroactively replace my original paraphrase with that verbatim text in the post I made scoffing at all this absurd “of all
people” huffing and gasping. Consider it so, and I consider my point well supported.

[Nava]

@Richard_Parker

I’m not sure that makes much sense. Unlike being black in America, being Hispanic in America doesn’t necessarily mean you have significant experience of discrimination.

Does being told you don’t know how to say your own name, or what your name is, constitute discrimination, or it is just insulting?

Because that’s something we tend to have in common with the Poles, and the Indians, and a lot of other people some of whom are white but like us, sometimes “not white enough”.
Nava “my name is not Maria”, white Hispanic.

[GIGObuster]

@SlackerInc

ETA: GIGO, that Gallup sentence is questionable. The present day scores were a virtual tie, while the gap on five year outlook was sizable.

Piffle, your statement here shows that once again you do not bother to see what else is there in context.

Gallup does not only ask that very subjective optimism question, but it also does ask very pertinent questions about the discrimination African Americans encounter, that is why they can say that indeed: “more likely to go unmet” Because they can have hope as history has shown; while the Jim crow laws where in effect, African Americans that joined the army had hope that their efforts would help eventually get rid of those laws. Hope is needed to **continue **working for change.

Race Relations

Next we’d like to know how you feel about the way various groups in society are treated. For each of the following groups please say whether you are very satisfied, somewhat satisfied, somewhat dissatisfied or very dissatisfied with the way they are treated. How about … Blacks?

Whites think that Blacks are:

2016 Jun 7-Jul 1

Very satisfied...Somewhat satisfied...Somewhat dissatisfied...Very dissatisfied
........17%...............39%...................28%...................15%

For the progress **they **see and how **they ****think **Blacks are treated.

What do Blacks think about how they are actually treated?:

Very satisfied...Somewhat satisfied...Somewhat dissatisfied...Very dissatisfied
........12%...............20%.....................25%..............**42%**

So, they do have hope, but even with optimism, Blacks do know that there **are **issues to take care of. And Whites like you think that most of what is going on is just peachy… :rolleyes:

[SlackerInc]

That’s a bullshit strawman.

[elucidator]

When things get better, the oppressed have more power to oppose their oppression. Which is a good thing, of course. And, of course, the day may yet dawn when there is not sufficient oppression to warrant resistance.

Likely, some people who have dedicated their lives for that will not see it, will still be so wrapped up in their identity that they can’t let it go. They will move from the category of “social justice warrior” to “shit disturber” and can therefore be safely ignored.

Today is not that day. Tomorrow isn’t looking that good either.

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@rat_avatar

Note the ‘?’ but it is more likely than some bullshit idea of racial superiority.

Great job on ignoring the fact that the fluid concept of ‘white’ didn’t even exist when those countries rose. But I can get how you like regurgitating the bullshit from “Hitlers Bible” but maybe you should put down your copy of ‘The Passing of the Great Race’ and other eugenicist literature.

The rise of Europe as a world power had nothing to do with their hypersensitivity to topics around race.

But to answer your question, had the indigenous people of the Americas possessed the proper immunity to disease the results would have been different. The fact that you believe that some special trait of ‘whites’ allowed that conquest to happen just demonstrates how ignorant you are. ‘Race’ is not a biologically meaningful term.

This makes even less sense that your typical post.

The special trait of “whites” was that they had guns. I say it right there in the post that you think comes out of hilter’s bible.

BTW, you know I’m Asian right?

[Damuri_Ajashi]

@k9bfriender

Hearing that a writer that you had never heard of before responded in a conversation about how white power structures were harming people based on their color use a term like #cancelwhite people and being offended by learning of it is pretty much the definition of getting defensive and uncomfortable when people bring up racism.

#cancelwhitepeople is not bringing up racism. Its being racist. Being offended at racism directed your way is not fragility.

BTW, please link to the twitter chain that verifies your version of how that hashtag got posted because I have not seen any proof that the use of #cancelwhitepeople was NOT racist. I have been asking for cites for a few pages now and no one seem to be able to provide anything that disproves the fairly apparent racism.

This is more of a pathetic attempt at accusing liberal hypocrisy by insisting that “The reaction to Jeong’s racism should not be so different than the reaction to the Netflix exec.”, even though they were different companies, different people making the decision, different circumstances, and different timelines.

I don’t recall this level of defense of the Netlfix exec. I’m not talking about the company’s reaction. I’m talking about reaction from people like you.

Hillary is not part of this thread, but once again, you do show some remarkably pathetic judgment that you fell for that narrative as well.

No, but its a very apt analogy. Just as you seem to think that it matters who provided the damning information in the case of Hillary, you also think it matters who provides the damning tweets against Jeong. It doesn’t matter who provides then proof of racism here (or corruption in the case of Hillary). Unless you can disprove the racism (or the corruption in the case of Hillary) it doesn’t buttress your argument that the proof of racism (or corruption in the case of Hillary) was provided by a conservative or by Russia.

I suspect that if Russia provided proof that Trump was an out and out traitor (somewhere on the order of the proof provided that Hilary cheate4d during the primary), you would you suddenly develop a newfound respect for the truth regardless of the source.

Huh?

Sorry, autocorrect. I meant to say:

Of course they do.

[MyFootsZZZ]

I hate some of the things I’ve said on this message board. I hope no one figures out who I am. But in case they do, I’ve grown.

I think her apology was sufficient.

Is there a double standard? Maybe. I might just be more accepting of people who say they’ve changed, as a whole, however. I really think I would be regaurdless of left or right, male or female, or whatever…