[QUOTE=garygnu]
Well, the 49ers have signed three free agent players, an old wide receiver, a decent (?) pass rusher, and a kick return specialist. However, the biggest and best news is that Candlestick Park is once again officially Candlestick Park and will stay that way.
[/QUOTE]
Justin Smith is NOT decent. He is SOLID as a run defender, and lackadaisical as a pass rusher.
[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Stallworth is probably going to be used much the same sort of way for us that he was used for the Pats: a deep threat trotted on the field who occasionally makes a big play. Winslow is a legit #2 option, and I don’t think Chud is going to move the offense away from him, but Stallworth gives us a better package on deep passing downs.
[/QUOTE]
But look out for Winslow…he’s a FUCKING SOLDIER!
LOL.
Classy guy!
[QUOTE=furt]
By the way, ProFootballTalk | PFT: News, Rumors, Videos, Highlights, Results & More - NBC Sports - NBC Sports has been awesome for NFL news. Florio routinely has rumor of signings before they happen.
[/QUOTE]
Great link, furt. I see from there that the Giants finally coaxed their first free agent to visit, a mere two days into free agency.
Sammy Knight, who has been known to hit pretty hard, is in the running to replace Gibril Wilson. His downside is that he’s old and slow, but hopefully he won’t turn into another Brent Alexander. As a one year stopgap he could be decent.
Some unconfirmed numbers:
G. Wilson 92 tackles, 7 passes defensed, 4 ints, 6.5 mil for 6 yrs
S. Knight 93 tackles, 11 passes defensed, 4 ints, around 2 mil?
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
well, we’ll see…we have a LOT of talent on offense, in fact I’d argue more than you, but…without a defense it won’t matter. I still think Anderson is WAY overrated.
[/QUOTE]
You have Carson Palmer, beats us. Possibly your RG and RT, and 2nd WR (what’s the deal with Chad now anyway?) but that’s it. We’re clearly better in every other position IMO.
[QUOTE=FoieGrasIsEvil]
Oh yeah, and the same logic applies to the Browns, FWIW. Ever even been to a Super Bowl? No? OK.
If you want to get all technical and stuff. We are ONE game away from sweeping you FOUR years in a ROW. We are not as bad as you may believe.
[/QUOTE]
You can pull out that “we went to the superbowl 20 years ago stuff” but my point was that the Browns were the only team in the AFC North that was clearly on the rise. And so far, we’ve made major additions in the areas we’ve been weakest.
What indications do you have that your team will be on the rise again? Marvin Lewis did a good job turning the attitude of the team around for a year or three - you had one winning season and all of these “lifelong” Bengals fans with price tags still on their Johnson and Palmer jersies popped up everywhere. But now it sounds like the inmates run the asylum.
Edit: For what it’s worth, I don’t really mind if you’re decent and take second place in the division. The media tries to play up some in-state rivalry between the Browns and Bengals but as far as I can tell, from the Browns’ fan end there really isn’t one. You’re sort of like our retarded little brother more than a rival.
[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Stallworth is probably going to be used much the same sort of way for us that he was used for the Pats: a deep threat trotted on the field who occasionally makes a big play. Winslow is a legit #2 option, and I don’t think Chud is going to move the offense away from him, but Stallworth gives us a better package on deep passing downs.
[/QUOTE]
Agreed. He’s not a good complement for Braylon Edwards at all, who is also a deep-threat only kind of guy. On the other hand, when you have a tight end who’ll pull down five catches a game without even trying, a solid possession WR is less of a need.
[QUOTE=Ellis Dee]
Sammy Knight, who has been known to hit pretty hard, is in the running to replace Gibril Wilson. His downside is that he’s old and slow, but hopefully he won’t turn into another Brent Alexander. As a one year stopgap he could be decent.
[/QUOTE]
He’s good against the run, and had excellent ball skills earlier in his career, but he’s becoming a liability in coverage. There’s a very good reason nobody’s kept him around for more than two seasons.
Were I a Giants fan, I’d look to replace Wilson via the draft; safety is one of those positions where you can safely plug in a rookie. See Tanard Jackson (Bucs), Reggie Nelson (Jags), Ko Simpson (Bills), LaRon Landry (Skins) or Antoine Bethea (Colts), all of whom started last season and were all at least decent.
Jackson would have gotten some attention for DROTY had he played for a more ballyhooed team, and only cost the Bucs a fourth-rounder.
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
You have Carson Palmer, beats us. Possibly your RG and RT, and 2nd WR (what’s the deal with Chad now anyway?) but that’s it. We’re clearly better in every other position IMO.
[/QUOTE]
Edwards has had one really good season. Bit early to suggest that he’s better than Chad Johnson (or Houshmanzadeh, for that matter). Also kind of hard to say that your secondary was better than Cincy’s when both were pretty bad and you just lost your best DB (Bodden) to free agency.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Agreed. He’s not a good complement for Braylon Edwards at all, who is also a deep-threat only kind of guy. On the other hand, when you have a tight end who’ll pull down five catches a game without even trying, a solid possession WR is less of a need.
[/quote]
Deep-threat only? Braylon Edwards is quickly becoming one of the best well-rounded receivers in the league.
I just went to nfl.com to get the game highlights that involved my favorite Edwards play and somehow, during an extensive 5 minute highlight clip, they didn’t choose to put the best play of the game in there. Grrr. The highlights the nfl.com site puts up within a few hours after a game is over are superior to the NFL network ones they eventually replace them with.
Anyway… Edwards runs all the routes. The guy is 6’3/215 and knows how to use his body - he probably makes more catches based on that than he does based on his speed, which is good but not burner range (he ran in the 4.5s IIRC at the combine).
You’d trade Johnson for Edwards straight up without a moment’s hesistation. Housh is harder to say but I still think just about everyone would pick Edwards given the choice.
And I was only comparing offenses, as you mentioned how talented your offense was. Both our defenses were very bad. Although we’ve filled our biggest hole already.
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
You’d trade Johnson for Edwards straight up without a moment’s hesistation. Housh is harder to say but I still think just about everyone would pick Edwards given the choice.
And I was only comparing offenses, as you mentioned how talented your offense was. Both our defenses were very bad. Although we’ve filled our biggest hole already.
[/QUOTE]
Salary cap-wise, maybe- Edwards would come a lot cheaper than Johnson’s next contract will.
Otherwise, you’ve got to be joking. Johnson has been among the best five receivers in the league for years. Edwards, again, has had ONE #1-type season. There’s no reason to believe that he won’t be the next Koren Robinson/Michael Clayton/Jerry Porter - all first-rounders who had one huge season and were very, very average afterward.
Incidentally, Edwards ran a 4.45 at the Combine (and a 4.42 at his Pro Day) but most scouts expected a sub-4.4 time.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Salary cap-wise, maybe- Edwards would come a lot cheaper than Johnson’s next contract will.
Otherwise, you’ve got to be joking. Johnson has been among the best five receivers in the league for years. Edwards, again, has had ONE #1-type season. There’s no reason to believe that he won’t be the next Koren Robinson/Michael Clayton/Jerry Porter - all first-rounders who had one huge season and were very, very average afterward.
[/quote]
If you asked me, right now, who I would rather have, Chad Johnson or Braylon Edwards, I’d take Edwards in a heartbeat, and not just because of the money. At this point in time, he’s an up and comer, and has gotten better every single year. And he’s doing it on the frickin Browns. I’m convinced if you had Palmer throwing to Edwards, he’d be a perenial pro bowler from year one. Add in the idiocy that Johnson brings to any team, and it’s an easy choice for me.
Is there any way the deal the Vikings gave Berrian is not way oversized (6 years, $42M)? :dubious:
The Bears now have only four receivers on the roster, two of whom have yet to have an NFL reception. 
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth]
Is there any way the deal the Vikings gave Berrian is not way oversized (6 years, $42M)? :dubious:
The Bears now have only four receivers on the roster, two of whom have yet to have an NFL reception. 
[/QUOTE]
That coupled with the quarterback…they need a couple of veterans. They need Brian Griese (if Chicago releases him) and some other vet to be named later.
[QUOTE=Oslo Ostragoth]
Is there any way the deal the Vikings gave Berrian is not way oversized (6 years, $42M)? :dubious:
The Bears now have only four receivers on the roster, two of whom have yet to have an NFL reception.
[/QUOTE]
The Seahawks gave Nate Burleson $49 million a few years back on the basis of a lot less than Berrian has shown.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
Salary cap-wise, maybe- Edwards would come a lot cheaper than Johnson’s next contract will.
Otherwise, you’ve got to be joking. Johnson has been among the best five receivers in the league for years. Edwards, again, has had ONE #1-type season.
[/quote]
His first year in the league he didn’t get to be a starter until midseason, and he only started a few games before he tore his ACL. He only had 500-600 yards, but looked good.
The next year he wasn’t supposed to be able to play football until several weeks into the season due to the severity of the injury, but he worked his ass off to come back at the start of the season. He wasn’t 100%. But he still put up 900 yards in a terrible offense with Charlie Frye as his QB.
So in his third year, he’s finally healthy and in a healthy offense, and he puts up 1300/16. In one of the worst weather cities in football, no less. Put him in a dome and we’re probably talking 1600+ yards.
Chad Johnson is old, on the decline, a headcase, and a cancer. Braylon is a team player, an up and comer, and does everything well. There’s not a GM in the league if offered the choice that would take CJ over BE.
Well, except that he’s improved every year and looked like a well rounded legit NFL receiver at every point in his pro career.
My bad. 4.45 is good speed, but not the burner speed you expect out of a “deep threat” only guy. He runs routes over the middle all the time and he uses his size and body control more often than deep speed.
I’m not sold on Shaun Rogers yet, but it was nice to read this:
Rogers did what he could to come to Cleveland instead of Cincinatti. Maybe he and Steinbach could share some laughs over some beers.
[QUOTE=Diomedes]
Yeah, right. You do remember Boller ain’t exactly a young gun:
[/quote]
He’s 26
After playing just 9 games in his rookie year before being injured, he went 258-of-464 (55.6%) for 2,559 yards with 13 TDs and 11 INTs. He had 4 games with QB ratings over 100. What more do you want from a guy moving from rookie to second year? They’re not great numbers, but they don’t stink either.
I don’t think so, but I have no stats handy to say one way or the other.
Last year Heap was out all year, DM is old and getting older and Clayton fought injuries; he’s a pile of promise that hasn’t materialized yet. I’ll take Winslow, Edwards and company in a heartbeat.
I’m convinced that this season will prove me right and you wrong. Quinn will be starting by December in Cleveland, and if Boller gets to play in a decent situation, he’ll do well.
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
Deep-threat only? Braylon Edwards is quickly becoming one of the best well-rounded receivers in the league.
I just went to nfl.com to get the game highlights that involved my favorite Edwards play and somehow, during an extensive 5 minute highlight clip, they didn’t choose to put the best play of the game in there. Grrr. The highlights the nfl.com site puts up within a few hours after a game is over are superior to the NFL network ones they eventually replace them with.
Anyway… Edwards runs all the routes. The guy is 6’3/215 and knows how to use his body - he probably makes more catches based on that than he does based on his speed, which is good but not burner range (he ran in the 4.5s IIRC at the combine).
**You’d trade Johnson for Edwards straight up without a moment’s hesistation. ** Housh is harder to say but I still think just about everyone would pick Edwards given the choice.
And I was only comparing offenses, as you mentioned how talented your offense was. Both our defenses were very bad. Although we’ve filled our biggest hole already.
[/QUOTE]
That is the height of insanity, despite his baggage. Chad is signed until the next decade. whether he likes it or not, and if he decides to pollute the waters in Cincy, we will get adequate compensation. Chad imo is going NOWHERE next year.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
The Seahawks gave Nate Burleson $49 million a few years back on the basis of a lot less than Berrian has shown.
[/QUOTE]
I think most of it was just a petty reaction to the Vikings taking Steve Huchinson (the better acquisition, of course).
[QUOTE=SenorBeef]
So in his third year, he’s finally healthy and in a healthy offense, and he puts up 1300/16. In one of the worst weather cities in football, no less. Put him in a dome and we’re probably talking 1600+ yards.
Chad Johnson is old, on the decline, a headcase, and a cancer. Braylon is a team player, an up and comer, and does everything well. There’s not a GM in the league if offered the choice that would take CJ over BE.
[/QUOTE]
You can call Johnson a headcase if you want, but show me where he ever had to be physically restrained from going after his quarterback.
I’m not from Ohio, so I may be assuming a bit here, but is the weather in Cleveland any worse than the weather in Cincy? Anyway, Kellen Winslow put up 1,100 yards last season in the same weather - as a freakin’ tight end. With a bum knee.
I discovered this by accident while Googling K2’s stats - have a look at the right hand column. It’s not definitive, but definitely food for thought.
Yes, but they certainly didn’t have to give him that much. IIRC he rejected offers from two other teams that were under $30 million.
[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
You can call Johnson a headcase if you want, but show me where he ever had to be physically restrained from going after his quarterback.
[/quote]
He wasn’t going after his quarterback. The offensive line was performing like garbage, and Braylon went over there to say, essentially “you guys need to get your shit together, look at all this dirt on his uniform”.
Yes, way worse. You get coastal effect wind and humidity in Cleveland. Water temperature changes at a much slower rate than land temperature over the course of a day, leading to significantly more wind in the areas near the coast. Cleveland Browns stadium is directly exposed to the lake, right next to it. You also get humidity picked up in that cold air over the lake. I’ve been to a few winter games in Cleveland and they have little flags on all 4 goal posts - they were often seen to be blowing in four seperate directions.
I used to live right next to the lake and my car was exposed in a parking lot - sometimes, overnight, there’d be a layer of ice so thick on one side of my car that you couldn’t scrape it, you had to use something to smash and shatter the bulk of it off before you could scrape the rest off.
I’ve been up to Edmonton in Canada in December and while the temperatures were lower, it wasn’t as cold as Cleveland generally is.
Right, and Edwards put up 1300. I wasn’t making excuses for Edwards, 1300/16 is a great season. I was just saying that it’s made even more remarkable by the fact that he had to do receiving in weather like this. (That clip, by the way, also has the greatest kick I’ve ever seen in the NFL).
If he played in a dome (and thankfully he doesn’t - that game I linked to was pure awesome) he could’ve probably lead the league in yardage.
Some developments on the Bears front that are worth discussing.
Bernard Berrian signed a 6-year, $47 Million deal with the division rival Vikings. I hate this. While on it’s face the Vikes might have overpaid for Berrian, and it certainly will raise the price of Moss, I think they got a fantastic deal and I’d have been thrilled if the Bears had made the same offer. Berrian can be a Pro Bowl guy. He’s got superb hands and speed and is elusive, best of all he always gets upfield after a catch. He’s going to develop into a ideal #1 guy. Minnesota’s QB situation is even worse than the Bears so his stats probably won’t bear this out. That said, I hope this contract becomes a problem for the Vikes and that Tavaris doesn’t figure out this whole throwing the ball thing. I’m gonna miss him and so will Grossman, Orton or the QB to be named later.
Lance Briggs signed a 6-year, $36 Million deal with the Bears. I said from the get-go that the Bears would only be able to keep one of these two guys. Berrian leaving was what cleared the way for this deal to get done. I’m pleased with it, but if I’d had my druthers I’d have hung onto Berrian instead. I think a productive WR is tougher to replace than a OLB, even one as good as Briggs. The Bears probably got a good price on him because there didn’t seem to be many other teams will to lay out big money for him, so all things considered it’s probably for the best. The Bears LB crew will be in Bears uni’s for at least the rest of the decade and probably beyond, considering they are all still young this is a good thing.
John Gilmore, backup TE, is gone to the Bucs. Nothing much of note here. Gilmore was expendable with the addition of Olsen last year and never really did much.
Julius Jones and Bryant Johnson are rumored to be planning visits with the Bears and I would welcome them both at reasonable prices. Jones could pick up where his brother left off and I like his speed as a compliment to Benson’s, um, sucking. I still would like to see the Bears draft a guy in the middle rounds this year because a Benson-Jones tandem isn’t a long term solution, but adding Jones would make drafting Mendenhall in the first round a nonstarter. Logically Jones might be cheaper and safer (not to mention freeing us to draft an OT), but emotionally I would love to see the Illini hero coming home. Johnson is a guy I don’t have much opinion on, but I like the idea of signing him over drafting someone. His limited production in Arizona might make him a bargain. I was hopeful that the Bears would sign Jerry Porter but he went to the Jags for 6 years, $30 Million which might be a little more than I would have been willing to spend on him. Supposedly Johnson’s agent and the Bears have worked well together in the past so that seems like a likely scenario.
Alan Faneca was originally rumored to be coming to the Bears but his price was simply too high. He’s instead going to the Jets for 5 years, $40 Mil. This is a really disappointing considering how many holes an already weak O-Line has and if there isn’t a OT available for the Bears worth the 14th pick we’ll really be in a pickle.
Elsewhere, Michael Turner signed a fat deal with the Falcons. It’s probably a really smart play for the Falcons. He’ll give them an immediate upgrade and more importantly it takes McFadden out of play and lets them take the BPA in the draft or trade down. Warrick Dunn is almost certainly going to be cut.
The Bears yanked an offer to Special Teams Superstar Brendon Ayanbadejo off the table when Rosenhaus decided to shop him around. Looks like the Bears are a little bitter after the Briggs drama last season and the outcome of the Berrian sweepstakes. We’ll see if he’s back, but it seems like a longshot at this point.
Brian Griese was traded back to the Bucs for an undisclosed 2009 draft pick. This is a great development regardless of where that pick ends up being. They were about to cut him and this saves them a couple bucks on their cap and they gain what will probably be a second day pick next season. If it turns out to be better than a 6th or 7th rounder, all the better.
[QUOTE=Omniscient]
They were about to cut him and this saves them a couple bucks on their cap
[/QUOTE]
How do you figure? Cutting a player or trading them away has the same cap impact. Even when a player retires it triggers the same effect. There is no way to avoid cap penalties other than keeping the player on the payroll.
This is no joke. Eli haters are quick to discount weather, but high winds make anybody’s numbers noticeably worse. Cold, rain and snow, not as much, but wind is a passing game killer.