…now hold on just a minute here. Didn’t you literally just say this mere seconds before you wrote this?
So Kaepernick speaks for everyone who is taking a knee? Kaepernick made the decision that the act of taking the knee is inherently “disrespectful” so therefore everybody who takes the knee intends disrespect? Do I get a vote in the matter? Can I play my “everybody” card on top of Kaepernick’s, because I happen to think that taking a knee is respectful?
Why are you “supposed” to be proud of the national anthem? How does that work? Do you not think its possible to be “not proud” of a mere song, but very proud of the people that fought and died for your country? Who gets to judge whether or not something is inherently disrespectful?
Its absolutely clear to me that kneeling during the national anthem is an act of respect. I’m not playing dumb. Do you think that I actually am “dumb?”
I still can’t believe there are people arguing that it is more important to stand for a song than protest to try to prevent white cops from getting away with shooting black men in the face.
No, Kaep speaks for himself. And he did speak for himself. And I’m judging his actions within the context of that speech. If you want to talk about someone else kneeling, name a name, and we’ll do that.
:sigh: You aren’t supposed to be proud of the national anthem, you’re supposed to be proud of the nation. I know you know that, and I know you know that the anthem represents that nation.
I think you’re pretending not to know what a symbol is, and it shows when you act like I said you’re supposed to be proud of the anthem. You know that the flag and the anthem are symbols of the United States, so why act like we’re talking about pride in a song or cloth?
See, look:
Hey, look, another person who confuses honoring with worshiping and confuses the flag and song with the country they represent.
I can’t believe it either. Tell me who it is, and I’ll get my pitchfork ready. Who’s doing that? Let’s get 'im.
…then why did you choose to answer my question? My question wasn’t about Kaepernick. I asked “how exactly is it disrespectful? Who made that decision, and am I obliged to agree with it?” You stated Kaepernick made that decision. But now you state he is just speaking for himself. Can you make your mind up? Is it one of the other?
Why are you concluding that because someone chooses to kneel at the national anthem that they are not proud of their nation?
Why are you “supposed to be” proud of your nation? At the risk of Godwin, if you lived in Nazi Germany in 1942 would you be proud of your nation? Would you support the obligation to be proud of your nation?
Who are you to tell me what the anthem represents to me? You don’t have that right.
I’m not acting. I’m not pretending. Are you calling me a liar?
I’m looking. And the people you are quoting are not me, so I’m not seeing the point.
Dial it way back. I get the analogy you’re trying to make. It’s a bad one on multiple levels. Firstly because it’s unecessarily inflamatory and insulting.
I say it isn’t, you say it is. We disagree, and that’s fine. But your opinion doesn’t get counted super-de-duper because you’re a veteran.
If police are murdering people of color, then it most assuredly NOT a time to show blind pride in the nation. How many times must this be explained to you?
I don’t care if you stand, sit, eat, fart, or whatever during the anthem. If you care what I or anyone else does, it’s your problem.
One could easily make the counterargument that by forcing standing during the anthem, the owners are forcing to players to make a political statement with which they may not agree. If the owners wanted the players to stand for the “Barack Obama Sure Is Awesome” song, would you be fine with that?
That’s right. I’m a veteran and my opinion is that this whole kerfuffle over the player’s protest is just that, a kerfuffle. It’s a distraction by those who are upset the players dare to condemn a particular injustice that, frankly, doesn’t affect the majority of those who are offended. The whole idea of people saying that the players don’t respect the veterans when they protest is to make it personal, to generate personal outrage. I, as a veteran, am perfectly fine with the players protesting injustice in this manner. After all, that’s one of the freedoms I supposedly defended.
Exactly right. And the Supreme Court already ruled that forced display of patriotism is treff.
If that workplace has an event that involves a government actor, you damn sure do have the right.
Out of idle curiosity, how much longer before the ridiculousness is expanded to include a mandatory chanted prayer and the pledge of allegiance?
The fact of the matter is this new policy almost exactly mirrors the NBA’s policy and nobody cared about that. I would have preferred they kept the all players in the locker room just like they did for years, but they haven’t had a problem with the NBA’s policy and they shouldn’t have one here. I doubt any lawsuit is going to have any traction on this.
Well, I’m most familiar with the AFB rules, which only required stopping and sitting quietly in your car. Getting out of the car and standing at attention wasn’t required.
1943 (in the middle of WWII) West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette.
*In a 6-to-3 decision, the Court overruled its decision in Minersville School District v. Gobitis and held that compelling public schoolchildren to salute the flag was unconstitutional. The Court found that such a salute was a form of utterance and was a means of communicating ideas. “Compulsory unification of opinion,” the Court held, was doomed to failure and was antithetical to First Amendment values. Writing for the majority, Justice Jackson argued that "f there is any fixed star in our constitutional constellation, it is that no official, high or petty, can prescribe what shall be orthodox in politics, nationalism, religion, or other matters of opinion or force citizens to confess by word or act their faith therein."
I’m not sure you can apply a ruling concerning children in public school with an employment contract with adults. Maybe you can, but I’m not sure.
He’s not acting as an enforcement officer in this situation. The compelling will be done, if it’s done, but the employer. And the players are offered an out (stay in the locker room) if they don’t want to participate. They might have a case, but it’s not going to be because of anything Trump has said or done.