Well, it would also be pure awesome if, instead of simply tackling the quarterback, some lineman would do a flying front snap kick and kick the helmet right off the bastard, but that would also probably draw a penalty.
I was being facetious of course but those are seperate things. The rule that punishes what you’re talking about is for player safety, the rule that I’m talking about was designed to make for easier/more successful offensive play.
I don’t really see a downside to removing the rule. I’ve never seen anything happen like what you described, so I’m not sure it’s a valid case to counter it with. Ultimately, it would put the burden on the offense to make a valid catch. If you don’t want to be subjected to being pushed out of bounds, don’t throw jump balls to the sidelines.
Sometimes judgement call penalties are necesary because you can’t objectively determine the results. But wherever possible, objective calls should replace judgement calls. And this is certainly a case where that is possible.
Really, I don’t see any value in a force out rule. It seems to be among the many rules that the NFL has instituted to handicap defenses, because they seem to believe (and maybe it’s true) that football audiences can’t appreciate good defense like they do good offense.
I wanted to add that not only is the force out an unnecesary judgement call, but it’s unique. In other judgement calls, like pass interference, you’re asking an official to give his interpretation of something that just happened. It’s subjective, but he’s evaluating what actually happened. In a force-out, you’re asking the official to evaluate what he think WOULD’VE happened, which a step even further into subjective territory.
Stupid question.
I typically don’t bet 2nd half lines because I watch the games at a sports bar. But when the line says Team A +2 (2nd half), that means that to win the bet, Team A’s score FOR THAT HALF must be more than Team B’s score minus 2, right?
So if team A scores 10 the first half and 20 the second half for a total of 30
and team B scores 30 points in the first half and 10 in the second half for a total of 40
even though team B wins by 10 points, team A won the second half score 20 to 10, and therefore a bet on team A +2 wins, right?
Probably a stupid question, but like I said I don’t bet the second half, but I may start, so I wanted to be sure.
Whee! Posting spree!
Wagerline.com is a place where lots of people bet monpoly money on sports, and it’s tracked.
The top 10 players who’ve made the best bets on given teams are declared experts for that team. You can see where the experts on both sides of the matchup are betting this week against the spread and the over/under. I’ve found in my very short experience there that a strong expert agreement there may have some meaning.
I decided to do a parlay of the bets that got what I concidered to be a strong expert consensus - something like 7-1 - that is 7 experts for, and 1 expert against. I made a 6 leg $5 parlay based on the strongest expert consensuses (is that a word?). Here’s what it was:
St. Louis -3 (final 28-16 St. Louis)
Minnesota -4 (final 42-10 Minnesota)
Tennesse -3.5 (28-20 Tennessee)
Carolina -3 (31-14 Carolina)
And the losing bets
TB vs NO under 42 (actual total 50)
Off by 8 points, but I don’t think anyone expected the surprisingly good play of Luke McCown
SD/KC over 36.5 (actual total 34)
Off by 2.5. This one especially frustrated me. As of around 3:30 eastern today, I was looking at 4 wins on my 6 leg parlay, and a 5th game was 24-10 SD with 8 minutes (IIRC) left in the game. All I needed was someone to get as much as a field goal, and TB/NO under 42 looked like a good bet, so I was thinking… as soon as someone kicks a field goal, I’ve probably just turned $5 into $250. And that field goal never came. KC was on the 10 yard line at one point and threw a pick. Then they had an open receiver drop a ball at the 5 yard line on 4th down in a later drive. That was depressing… watching 8 minutes go by, needing 3 points by either side, and not getting it. It would’ve been irrelevant anyway due to the Tampa/NO score, but it sucked at the time.
Anyway, my point is that there might be something to listening to the wagerline.com experts when there’s a strong consensus. I’m going to continue to throw $5 a week at a parlay based on those picks.
There’s a betting message board called “madjacksports”.
It’s similar to here, with one forum for football, one for hoops, hockey, etc.
Re: second half lines. Yes, the lines are JUST for the second half score. If a team is up 7-0 at the half, and you get them -2 for the second half and they win 7-3, you lose.
Not much to say. Gambling wise, the late games were nuts. The Chicago game flip-flopped, the TB game went from a TB cover to a push, back to a cover. The Zona game could have gone the other way if they called the push-out.
Ha! Sweet, sweet [post=7915840]karma[/post]. Suck it, Brownies!
I will offer you the following consolation:
By any objective measure, the non-call against the Jets last year was a (much) worse non-call than the non-call against the Browns this year. I’d love it if we could get links to both for comparison, but I’m not sure where to look for either.
I really don’t think Winslow could have come down in bounds. It was possible, but far from certain. With regards to the force our rule though, the following situation happened a couple of weeks ago in a Steelers game, and is going to come up again if the league doesn’t address it:
Receiver leaps near the sidelines, is bobbling the ball, gets shoved, and lands. The referee calls the pass incomplete due to the bobble(he thought it hit the ground). The coach challenges, and the ref finds that the receiver caught the ball, but came down out of bounds due to being forced out. However, the forced out part is not reviewable, so the call on the field must stand. In the Steelers game, the receiver got a knee down, so the force out didn’t come into play, but it is going to come up again. The officials in this case need to call the pass both incomplete, and rule a force out for the shove, in case the catch is actually good.
It’s not karma. The Browns, and for that matter, the Cardinals, did nothing wrong. If you’ve done nothing wrong, there’s no reason for karmic retribution. In both cases it was the decision of the refs, a decision totally out of the hands of the teams.
In any case, I think both situations are shitty. I’d much rather be saying “he didn’t get his feet in bounds, so we lost” than “we really won, but the ref didn’t enforce the rule properly” which is much harder to get over. Or more importantly, if the stupid rule didn’t exist the offense might’ve executed in a way that would’ve avoided the ambiguity of that situation.
It’s not karma, no one deserves that bullshit to happen to them. It’s a stupid fucking rule that allows the ineptitude/biases/etc. of the ref determine the game.
Well that’s a 180 degree turnaround from your position last year, some of which I quoted above.
I like the rule, and would hate to see it taken off the books. The improper enforcement of it pisses me off to no end, though.
Fuckin’ refs. One more eye you’d be a cyclops.
To be fair, I did say then that it was a shitty rule.
I also recall the situations being somewhat different, but my memory may be faulty. They both occured in the nearside corner of the end zone - with the Jets on the right, with Winslow on the left. From what I recall, the Jets receiver’s momentum, if you were to draw it as an arrow on the ground, was heading clearly out of bounds. If left untouched by the defenders, he definitely would’ve gone out of bounds, but it’s a matter of whether or not he’d have been able to get his feet in. If you drew Winslow’s momentum as an arrow on the ground, it’s much more pointed towards the back of the end zone. Untouched, it looked like he’d have landed on his ass.
It’s so subjective that it’s hard to have “proper” enforcement. What other rule makes the ref decide what he thought might’ve happened? What benefit do you see the rule bringing to the game of football?
Edit: Oh, also, now is not the time to jump on the Redskins, but it was nice to see another icing the kicker incident backfire. Two timeouts in a row turns a 51 yarder into a 36 yarder. Brilliant.
In an unrelated request, will you please take Tim Carter back? Somehow he keeps seeing the field occasionally, and then bad things happen.
This week it looked like he ran a poor route, didn’t come back to the QB, and didn’t attempt to break up the interception that went the other way for 6. That’s nastier than his usual “look, I’m open! But don’t throw it to me, cause I just gave my hands their special grease treatment!” thing. There was also a fake spike play where it looks like he was supposed to run a go route and didn’t, although that’s not clear if it was his fault. The route was there, though, probably an easy TD.
For some odd reason he sees time on offense much more than Cribbs.
It looked like a force-out to me. I think judgement calls like that should be reviewable. I find nothing sacrosanct about an official’s judgement. The existing restrictions on reviews would keep too many calls like this from being reviewed anyway. It’s just too big a swing to let it go
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49ers:
Whatever good will Mike Nolan got from the win over Arizona, he and Trent Dilfer blew it against Carolina. Nolan was given complete power over this team’s personel and this is what he has to show for it? Combined with years of questionable game management skills, it’s time to get rid of him.
I say get multiple athletic QBs, dump the fullback, put Vernon Davis in the slot and run a spread offense from the gun.
http://www.fanmonster.com/livefeed/2007/wislowcatch3.jpg
When he leaped up to make the catch, his momentum was going towards the back of the end zone.
I hate the getting screwed by line moves aspect of sports betting. I have some bets down on NE -20, and the line has actually moved to NE -18.5. If I’d have delayed the bets, I’d be getting a better spread (although I couldn’t delay the parlays involing other games). Although you run the opposite risk - delaying the bet gets you a worse spread.
Now the weather is not good for a 20 point spread, with 20 mph winds. But this has been predicted for days. Has it rained in Balitmore today? The forecast is actually more favorable in that regard - they were predicting potential precipitation on Monday night but that seems to have trailed off.
The wind does concern me. The Pats won’t be able to run well against the rats. It’s somewhat of an equalizer. But Brady’s got a strong enough arm that their short passing game should still be very effective, so I still like NE.
The wagerline expert lines are split along homer lines. The Baltimore experts feel Baltimore can cover.
My lines at this time are NE - 18.5, over/under 46.5. I hate taking large spreads and relatively modest unders, but that’s the way I’m leaning. Or I might just make a big straight bet on NE - 18.5. Does anyone know why the money is going to Baltimore? Should I rethink this?
I’m seeing something like 37-10. Cutting it close on the O/U.
Scratch that.
Well, I get to watch the Ravens suffer tonight and also gain financially from it. Slightly helps to offset the crapfest that was yesterday.
Go Pats. 45-0. (I win the most if it stays under 48).
Hmm. Concerning. What happened to the Pats?
I still think they can turn it around at half time and possibly still cover the spread. My book does live betting, and right now the NE -18.5 bet is +300. Tempting.
I hope you took the spread, and I hope you choked on your Doritos on that last play. The Ravens had the Pats dead in the water on… four? five? consecutive fourth downs. That time-out on 4th and 1… ARGH.
Billick really stepped on his own dick by calling that time out. One more reason that time outs should not be allowed to be called from the sideline.