I can see that you gave this contribution a lot of time and careful thought. Way to go, big guy!
Feel free to actually dispute the point rather than jump right to the argumentum ad hominem.
I mean, I expect the personal attack from you, but normally you at least try to twist some words first before falling back on trying to discredit the person instead of their argument.
Go ahead and defend Lemieux’s statements in light of the fact that Matt Cooke is currently serving yet another suspension for a dirty hit and his team leads the league in PIMs and fighting majors.
Hey, wait, are you the one who I clowned with his own statistics a few weeks back?
Which point did you you want me to refute? “Whaaa?” Was that your big point?
I can only assume that you didn’t see anything that happened in the Islanders game, because there’s no comparison to Cooke’s hit on Tyutin. How about you go and actually look at what happened and then offer some more well-thought out “points” to be contested.
Oooh, oooh, please bring some more stats, too. That was fun.
Yeah, pretty much exactly the antagonizing response I expected, but I’ll not be roped into another “conversation” with you. I’ve got a wall right here I can bang my head against if I wanted that kind of pain.
Must be a fun time to be a sports fan in Pittsburgh right about now. Enjoy it!
If you wish to debate the actual merits of the penalties assessed by the NHL regarding the penalties handed out, feel free to do so. This seems like you have some kind of grudge. Soulmurk has offered far more regarding debateable points than you have. Do you think the punishments handed out by the NHL to be unfair? If so, why?
Please explain to me how any of the relevant incidents by the islanders were similar to any hit by Matt Cooke.
Please point to any complaint from Mario Lemieux regarding any rough hit - like those committed by Cooke - that the Penguins take on any given night, just like every other team does.
#4 Pitt beats #10 Villanova at the PavilionThanks, I will! We’ve got a great football team, great hockey team and a great college basketball team. Our baseball team stinks, but yeah, it’s a pretty great time to be a sports fan in Pittsburgh. Thanks, Champ!
I do think the punishments handed out by the NHL are unfair, but not because of what was or was not given to Pens or Isles players. I feel it was unfair given as how the NHL didn’t even look at the Bruins-Habs game and issued any discipline there, though it’s probably not a surprise given as Campbell’s son is on the Bruins (and oh, look, he’s the asshole slicing up Pyatt’s face with an elbow pad, right next to Boychuk continually punching Spacek, even though the latter isn’t fighting back and is already down!).
It’s bullshit to punish one thing severely in one game and let the same thing slide in the next. It’s bullshit to punish one guy for a particular type of hit, then let others get away with it. It’s bullshit that discipline is handled by one guy who has repeatedly shown bias in favour of and against certain players and teams. It’s bullshit that there aren’t any written rules, that they few they have aren’t applied, and that decisions are completely arbitrary and without regard for past offences or decisions made. It’s bullshit that some players’ careers can end because the league won’t balls up and do what’s right.
I love this game, but this league is a fucking joke.
Whatever this has to do with Matt Cooke is between you and soulmurk. I’m asking you if you think the punishments handed out between the Islanders and the Penguins is unfair, and if so why?
My case (which has nothing to do with Matt Cooke) is that the punishments seemed okay as far as I know. The Islanders started some crap beyond the beating they handed out (somehow) on the scoreboard, and the penalty assessed to the Pens is an automatic. Seems fine to me, though I haven’t checked with Matt Cooke about it. Maybe I should.
Also, Matt Cooke.
ETA: Matt Cooke
I’m a bit surprised Jack Haley didn’t earn himself a vacation for engaging Brent Johnson after having a previous fight broken up. Two fights on one shift seems like it should draw some sort of additional punishment, as he should not still have been on the ice.
Someone somewhere had an interesting idea since fines and suspensions don’t seem to be much of a deterrent for goonery: what if suspended players counted against the 20 man roster limit while they sat out?
Well, gee, thanks for dictating the content of the discussion. I responded to soulmurk’s “argument” that Lemieux was somehow hypocritical because of Matt Cooke.
Didn’t you, in fact, assert that soulmurk had presented more points for debate than I had? So either you agree that somehow Lemieux was hypocritical because of Matt Cooke, or you have insinuated yourself into something and now recognize that in fact you didn’t know what you were talking about - that soulmurk’s original comment was full of fail.
See, if Matt Cooke’s actions are entirely unlike what the Islanders did, then calling Lemieux hypocritical is actually completely stupid.
So, what the Islander pussies did was 1) jump Talbot from behind while skating through center ice and punch him in the head, or 2) charge and elbow Tangredi into concussion - and then punching him in the head after he’s gone to the ice - and then standing in the open door and taunting him while he’s still down on the ice and the trainer is attending to him, or 3) get into one fight, and then when he’s sent to the box and the refs are attending to #2 above, go instead to engage the Penguins’ goalie in a fight.
That last one was Haley, a minor league goon brought up by the Islanders only to do just what he did.
So, since you chose to take up soulmurk and vouch for his points of debate, please step up to defend them, rather than trying to junior mod your way into another different debate.
perhaps it didn’t until you decided to second soulmurk. Here, I’ll quote you:
Here, let me re-quote what you asserted was soulmurk’s “debatable” point:
So, if it has nothing to do with Cooke, then how is Lemieux hypocritical? Do you and soulmurk assert that because Cooke has engaged in over-the-line rough hits, the Penguins are forever banned from observing that others should not punch players in the back of the head, punch and taunt players when they are down on the ice with a concussion, or go and engage the goalie in a fight after being sent off for fighting?
So, you think it’s okay to bring up a goon from the minors and have him go after the other team’s goalie when he’s supposed to be in the box and there should be no league sanction for that? Do you think the suspension for jumping someone from behind and punching them should be the same as Matt Cooke’s suspension for boarding? I don’t - I think punching someone from behind is a complete pussy move and is a disgrace to the game.
What do you mean “somehow”? Are you ignorant of what’s going on with the Penguins right now? Half their players are call-ups, and they even lost their best call up in the first period of the Islanders game. Tangredi was another call-up until he got taken out by that Islander pussy.
You ought to check with someone, because you appear to have no idea what you’re talking about. You ought to watch some hockey sometime. Maybe you’d have an idea about what’s acceptable or not. You seem instead like the woman who sat behind me one game laughing whenever a player fell down.
Sigh.
That wasn’t but a small part of my argument, but I’ll clarify:
- October, 2009–David Booth is leveled by a blindside, dirty hit from Jeff Carter, concussing him badly and causing him to miss significant time and threatening the remainder of his hockey career. Carter is not suspended or otherwise reprimanded for his actions.
Outrage expressed by Mario Lemieux that “The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport.” or that “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players. We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.” – Zero.
The number of Penguins targeted or injured by said actions – Zero.
- March, 2010–Marc Savard is leveled by a blindside, dirty hit from Matt Cooke, concussing him and leading, perhaps, to the end of his hockey career. Cooke is not suspended or otherwise reprimanded for his actions.
Outrage expressed by Mario Lemieux that “The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport.” or that “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players. We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.” – Zero.
Coincidentally, the number of Penguins targeted or injured by said actions – Zero.
- February 2011–Alexander Ovechkin is struck by a deliberate knee-on-knee hit by Matt Cooke, who escapes punishment.
Outrage expressed by Mario Lemieux that “The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport.” or that “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players. We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.” – Zero.
The number of Penguins targeted or injured by said actions – Zero.
- February 2011–Fedor Tyutin is charged/boarded by Matt Cooke in a dangerous play with clear intent to injure. Cooke receives a measly four game suspension despite being a repeat offender and showing no evidence that he is changing his ways.
Outrage expressed by Mario Lemieux that “The NHL had a chance to send a clear and strong message that those kinds of actions are unacceptable and embarrassing to the sport.” or that “We, as a league, must do a better job of protecting the integrity of the game and the safety of our players. We must make it clear that those kinds of actions will not be tolerated and will be met with meaningful disciplinary action.” – Zero.
Coincidentally, the number of Penguins targeted or injured by said actions – Zero.
- February, 2011–Upset by previous transgressions, both called and uncalled, the Islanders take matters into their own hands and dirtily hit several Penguins players.
Now, suddenly, Mario Lemieux has something to say about the messages the League is or isn’t sending. Now, after extending Matt Cooke’s contract (who even you yourself admit is “kind of dirty”), he has something to say about how the League needs to protect the safety of the players.
That is textbook hypocrisy. His point may be valid, but his timing is awful and he’s the last guy who should be making it right now.
Actually, he was called up because the Islanders needed someone to replace PA Parenteau (you know, the guy that was out because of an injury suffered by a Max Talbot hit the last time the two teams played?) and because they lead the league in man-games lost to injury they only have so many options.
Besides, calling up a goon for a game that’s expected to be physical is nothing new. All teams do it.
Huh? Please clarify your logic. It seems you’re cherry picking a number of incidents that Lemieux made no statement about.
Why should he make a statement about Jeff Carter? What does Jeff Carter have to do with the Penguins? I don’t follow your logic at all.
You’ve not included any incidents involving hits on Penguins players. Can you find any examples of Lemieux expressing outrage over hits that occur AGAINST Penguins players? They do happen, you know. For instance, did Lemieux make a statement of outrage after the hits on Crosby? If Lemieux has been silent regarding all hits until this point, you’re actually making my argument for me.
Furthermore, you’ve not included anything that is remotely like the actions committed by the Islanders. Do you not get that the behavior of the Islanders went well beyond rough play and fighting? For instance, do you have any examples of Matt Cooke punching someone from behind or jumping on someone and punching him after the guy went to the ice or engaging a goalie in a fight on the way to the box?
He’s had ample opportunity over the years to speak out against dirty hits, “protecting the integrity of the game” and the league’s handling of player safety; the Carter hit on Booth, for example, was a perfect opportunity because it didn’t even involve his team, yet he remained mum… and he certainly didn’t deign to speak out against the League as failing to properly address such things when it was his guys getting away with the dirty hits and clear intent to injure.
Now that his team is the victim of such reprehensible acts, he suddenly has an opinion he must share publicly.
Regardless of whether or not his statement has merit, the message is delivered by the wrong guy at the wrong time.
And to top it off he throws in that “appease me or I’ll take my puck and go home” bullshit at the end.
Don’t call it a comeback, I’ve been here for years!
No reasons given in the article… any Colorado fans have any insight?
Probably more of the chronic foot pain he’s suffered his whole career; hasn’t Forsberg had multiple injuries/surgeries on his foot/feet?
The Canadian media is largely taking the stance that Lemieux has a point regarding league discipline in general, but for a man who was silent on the Cooke hits, silent on the hit on Booth, silent on the Crosby hit(s) and who doesn’t even go to the governor’s meetings (of which he’s a part) which is where changes to the game are discussed, this little “don’t think I want to be part of it” hissy fit is a little uncalled for.
That said, if it’s the beginning of him calling out all the bad calls and decisions that the league makes, then I hope he continues! Things have got to change, but I don’t think they will based on this week’s events alone.
Yeah yeah. TLDR.
Whatever you think of my hockey knowledge, I know enough to skate away when someone is chirping.
I asked a rather direct question and you post this instead of answering. I think I’ll just go about my business of enjoying this thread instead of dropping the gloves with you. 
Brad Richards not on the Stars 3 game road trip. That’s just wonderful, the Stars have been struggling and now they’re without their best player for 3 road games!
I for one don’t think he’s serious about saying “I don’t want to be a part of it” – he’s too far invested in this city and the Pens themselves. I think it was more of him expressing his outrage and frustration at the way the league handles this kind of thing. (And let’s face it – Bettman’s a horse’s ass.) It could also be that he HAS said this kind of thing before behind closed doors, (I’m sure he has!) but this was kind of the final straw.
But Mario is known around here as a real class-act, and while it may just be my bias showing, I don’t find him to be a hypocrite. Hockey’s a tough sport, and players sometimes cross the line. But this time the line was completely erased.
(And while I’m a Matt Cooke fan, I do think the guy needs to chill. Off the ice, Cookie’s known to be a stand-up guy, but he’s really gone overboard)
I wanted to see Mike Fisher’s debut as a Predator, so I caught this game. Forsberg’s skating like an old woman out there. That foot never healed right. At least Brett Favre could wrap his bum ankles in a plastic boot…that does little for someone skating, sadly for him.