Yeah. Get rid of the instigator. You can blame the goons, but it’s the Matt Cookes and the Patrick Kaletas and the Jordan Tootoos of the league causing this crap. The heavyweights police the ice.
Heh. Who are the Flames plaing tonight? The Avs or the Nords? Wow, nine goals so far, eight for the Flames.
The foot is kind of what I figured, but I guess I expected that it was such a known issue that both he and the Avalanche would have made sure it was okay before letting it get this far.
Hey pretty boy, what’ll it take to make you fight back?
That’s just it - no one actually believes he’s serious, so it comes across as a spoiled brat’s temper tantrum. And it seems that he isn’t really involved “behind closed doors” at the league level - I’ve read a few articles mentioning that Lemieux doesn’t even go to a lot of the owners/governors meetings. He isn’t involved beyond his own team, and his own interests, and complaining about this one fight-filled game but completely ignoring other recent ones or other “travesties” in hockey (some of the worst ones linked to his own team) in the past few years just makes it worse.
I agree with the message that something needs to change. I agree with Lemieux that the state of the league when it comes to discipline is disgraceful right now, and that Bettman and Campbell are incompetent assholes.
However, I think Lemieux was an idiot for stating it in the way he did, particularly so given which team he owns and which players he employs. How can it not come across as hypocritical? It ought to be interesting to see whether he continues to take this stance when more events occur, or if this is the final word he has to say on the matter.
Calling for gloves to be dropped: I now picture Hentor as Dan Carcillo.
If you’re going to go to the realm of Flyers goons, please make me Scott Hartnell. In for a penny, in for a finger bite, I say.
Folks like you keep referring to the Islanders game as a “fight filled game” and suggesting that Lemieux was complaining about lots of fighting or lots of rough hits. You remain completely ignorant of the matter. Lemieux wasn’t complaining about fighting or rough hits. Punching people in the back of the head is qualitatively different than fighting. Taunting is not fighting. If you continue to fail to comprehend these key distinctions, you will continue to be ignorant on the matter. If you want to be ignorant on the matter, so be it.
No one here has referred to the game that way or accused Lemieux of that at all.
The crux of the disagreement with Lemieux’s statement is that he’s complaining about the League’s missing an opportunity to properly address the issue of dirty hits with harsher penalties only after it’s his team that’s been victimized by them, even though he employs one of the dirtiest players in the entire League.
He’s had plenty of chances to speak up, but only chooses now, when it’s his team laying on the ice.
Where was Mario’s outrage then?
Oopsies, I guess.
He’s not complaining about dirty hits! Jesus, this is like talking to a brick. If you refuse to comprehend the difference, you will continue to be ignorant of the matter.
And so the misrepresentation and straw men have begun. Wall, meet my head.
Was it not a fight-filled game? Were there not a lot of fights?
:checks the boxscore:
By my quick count there were 13 fighting penalties assessed. That qualifies as “fight-filled” by anyone’s definition.
Oh right, you’re insinuating that referring to it as “a fight-filled game” diminishes that there was also a lot of non-fighting shenanigans going on: bullshit. Read the whole quote you butchered to remove the context and wrap your head around the fact that mnemosyne agrees with Lemieux’s points.
He said:
Emphasis mine.
If you refuse to comprehend that there is no fundamental difference between what Martin and Gillies did and what Cooke or Carter did or what Bertuzzi and Pronger did, then you will continue to be ignorant of the matter.
The Pens broke Erik Cole’s neck on a hit from behind in 06. Luckily he was not paralyzed and can play now.
soulmark, last time I recall, Cooke didn’t continue pummeling Savard while he was on the ground, and heckeling him. He seemed pretty shaken up about the whole thing, actually.
(I’m not defending his actions, but your constant harping on, “BUT WHAT ABOUT MATT COOKE!!!” is getting really annoying)
Sorry, I just like the mental image of Carcillo taunting someone by lisping “pretty boy” through what’s left of his teeth. It just cracks me up.
I had thought about going into a long-winded, detailed description of exactly what game I was referring to, complete with accurate play-by-play of every movement of every player including every action that may be deemed as taunting, illegal or violent just to be sure you know which game I was talking about, but figured it was unnecessary. Guess I was wrong.
In case you hadn’t noticed, I generally bitch about the same things Lemieux was bitching about: bad calls, violent plays, ineffective discipline and the crap organization that is the NHL. The difference is I’m not doing it while looking away and cutting a paycheque for a player at the heart of some of the more recent and controversial examples of those very things.
He’s right about what he said. He’s just not in a position to say it.
That doesn’t matter. It’s the fundamental issue at hand: a dirty hit with clear intent to injure.
Breaking it down to different degrees of dirtiness is disingenuous. They’re all dirty hits and reprehensible actions and the League should take steps to remove them from the game entirely.
I’m not “harping” on about him; Matt Cooke is the centerpiece of what makes Mario Lemieux’s statements hypocritical, and so is absolutely part of the conversation.
For what it’s worth, I think Pronger, Jarkko Ruutu and Bertuzzi, to name a few, shouldn’t even be allowed to play any longer, having long ago forfeited their privilege to play in this league with their actions, but that’s another discussion for another time. The issue at hand is whether Lemieux is being hypocritical for calling out the League for not properly handling dirty tactics and intent to injure while employing and remaining mum about the dirtiest player in the League, and so Matt Cooke is at the center of that discussion.
ETA: And, I might add, your constant blind homerism defense of everything Pittsburgh is getting really annoying.
Here’s a good take on Lemieux’s performance. Sadly it focuses more on Lemieux than on Matt Cooke, but personally I feel that’s slightly more relevant. Enjoy.
And Hentor. If you want me to drop the gloves, answer my question and not what you perceive to be my argument. Calling me pretty boy will just get you a different kind of action.
What can I say? I’m a sucker for flattery.
May I ask then if, hypocrisy aside, you believe that Mario Lemieux is wrong in his statement? Surely you do not think his statements are incorrect regardless of his hypocrisy?
Then I will ask if Steve Yzerman should be prohibited from complaining about cheap hits to his players because he also employs Steve Downie? If Datsyuk or Zetterberg are concussed on a dirty hit, is Ken Holland a hypocrite for complaining about it while signing Todd Bertuzzi’s paychecks? Same thing goes for the employers of Sean Avery, Chris Neil, Steve Ott, Jordin Tootoo, or Chris Pronger?
Similarly, after Trevor Gillies took 30 full strides and launched his elbow into a defenseless, non-puck-possessing player, should other GMs and owners have spoken up so as to cover their own asses in the event one of their players is on the receiving end of such a hit? What if Greg Sherman had called Gillies’ suspension inadequate on the same day that Phillipe Dupuis hit Olli Jokinen knee-to-knee?
Matt Cooke is a frequently-dangerous, dirty player, but he is not talentless. He’s a strong source of secondary scoring and the Penguins’ best penalty killer after Jordan Staal. His offensive skill set fits perfectly into Dan Bylsma’s system, and the Penguins are unquestionably a weaker team without his presence in the lineup. He has more goals this season than Trevor Gillies has in his entire 11-year professional career. The Penguins employ Cooke for a reason and his dangerous play is detrimental to the team, not the reason for his continued employment. He deserves every bit of suspension he receives and more, but it is by far and away in the team’s best interest to keep him in line and on the ice. His reason for being on the team has nothing to do with his dirty play and, in fact, occurs despite his dirty play.
Trevor Gillies contributes nothing to the Islanders and assuredly whoever plays instead of him will contribute more to the team. He was on the ice for a single reason: to cause injury. He had no other purpose. Even a fighter like Zenon Konopka, who is one of the most skilled faceoff men in the league, has an important role to that team. The Islanders, specifically Gillies and Martin, went into that game seeking only revenge and to cause injury. Matt Cooke has never done that.
So, I disagree that Lemieux is a hypocrite. He was outspoken as a player against the clutch-and-grab system. He’s allowed to complain that a talentless player was put on the ice specifically to cause injury on a non-hockey play while employing a talented player who plays dirty but still gets important minutes. If he is not allowed to complain about such a situation, then the league has no hope for eliminating head shots and dangerous plays because every team has someone who has crossed the line in the context of the game. It is in Lemieux’s best interest to force Cooke to play cleanly; a clean Cooke is a strong asset. A clean Gillies isn’t even playing in the ECHL.
Cooke is a real garbage player, though. He didn’t pummel a guy on the ground and heckle him, yes. Was this because he was a class act, or because the entire Boston Bruins bench would have massacred him? When we talk about other guys who have had cheap hits, they would at least fight. Sean Avery will fight the odd heavyweight. Bertuzzi and Sutton would at least fight. Aaron Downey at least fought Chris Neil after his hit on McAmmond. The fact is that Cooke is a dangerous agitator, who spot picks against other little pests like Steve Moore. You’d think being on the Canucks when Todd Bertuzzi’s crap went down would serve as a cautionary tale for him. I’m not condoning violence, but he’s bringing ill will on his own team.
So a garbage team not in a playoff spot wants to hurt his team mates? Yeah, I can believe that. Expect even worse. There’s no such thing as too much harping on Cooke. He’s gonna get his, and real bad, one day. And he’ll have no one to blame but himself.
While I have the homer goggles on, Ruutu’s not even in the same league as those other two guys. The worst he did was bite a washed up brawler’s thumb during a face wash. Jordin Tootoo or Aaron Downey…I would agree with you on that.
This is ridiculous as UTejas made clear in a much better manner than I ever will be able to. All I’ll ask is that you tell me who is in such a position.
Has it been so long that we’ve all forgotten the tagline from Youngblood? Truly a classic piece of cinema. Oh the state of the world these days.
You’re right, that’s my bad. For some reason I remembered Jarkko as the leg-stomper, not the leg-stompee. Replace Ruutu’s name with Chris Simon in my previous statement.