This debate’s been raging at Viva El Birdos since the bottom of the 7th, and I want to get the SDMB baseball community’s opinion.
Here’s the situation:
2 out, bottom of the 7th. Michael Tucker pinch-hits for Mota and singles.
With the count 1-2 on Jose Reyes, Looper checks the runner at first twice. Tony La Russa calls for a pitchout from the dugout and Yadier Molina sails the ball high, allowing Tucker to steal second safely. Reyes then hits an infield single that gives the Mets runners at the corners. Reyes steals second, then Paul Lo Duca drives in two runs.
The two runs ended up being the difference, as Wagner gave up a 2-run double in the 9th.
My view (and many agree) is that the pitchout was a bad idea, as Tucker was not going to score from first on anything but a home run and the call took the focus off the hitter. Others argue that it was the right call because Tucker would have been out, and instead blame Molina’s execution on the throw.
What would you have done? Do you call for a pitchout on that count, in that situation, when you already trail by 2 and need to keep the Mets off the scoreboard again?
The pitch out is the aggressive call. It all depends if you’re conservative or not. I’m aggressive by nature so I like the call.
One can presume that LaRussa had a very strong indication that the runner was going, it’s not like he was guessing. It fits the situation as the Mets had very little to lose by running and the count was ideal. Also, one can always speculate that they stole the sign. If you are confident the steal is on you’re basically saying your odds are better of throwing the runner out than striking the batter out. With Molina behind the plate that’s usually the smart call. Plus, even after missing the throw you still have a second chance at getting the batter.
These are pros in the playoffs. You don’t go into a situation assuming your star catcher will miss a easy throw and assuming that your pitcher with be “rattled” by the pitch out and unable to refocus on the 3-2 offering.
It’s the right call unless you have a guy like Clemens out there who is almost certain to strike out the batter with a 2-2 count.
If the pitcher weren’t Braden Looper, I’d agree with you on his not being rattled. However, Looper’s been shaky all year, and it was a pretty questionable call going to him in the 7th anyway (I’d have given the ball to Hancock or Babyface.)
It just seems to me like TLR managed 2 gift runs right into the Mets’ hands, and with those runs being the margin of victory, that’s a mistake you can’t make.
Don’t even get me started on lifting Carp after 76 pitches. Or not pinch-hitting Duncan for Rolen and moving Spiezio to third.
No, Yadier air-balled 2 gift runs. Get it straight. LaRussa should have managed them out of the inning without even having to get Reyes out. It just doesn’t make sense to try and blame the guy who guessed right when the player just failed to execute.
It’s the equivalent of blaming the NFL head coach for calling a passing play on third and 3 when his Pro Bowl QB overthrows the wide-open WR over the middle.
It’s easy for us fans to second guess the actions of players/coaches/managers while watching sports on television, but in this case I feel LaRussa made a good decision to pitch-out because:
he was correct in thinking that the Mets signaled tucker to attempt a steal.
Yadier is (usually) an excellent fielding catcher even among other MLB catchers.
it is likely that Tucker would have stolen the base if the pitchout was not called
Tucker should have been out if the play (pitch-out/catch/throw/catch/tag) had been properly executed
I agree with you here 100%. If I were managing the Cards, then I’d rather use Looper as a mop-up pitcher rather than a set-up reliever in a tight game. Also, LaRussa often likes to have right-handed pitcher vs. right-handed batter and south paw pitcher vs. lefty hitter in these situations; why would Looper be called in this situation? Sure, he could pitch to the righty Valentin who was due to lead off the bottom of the 7th inning, but why keep him beyond that? Next up is a lefty Endy Chavez and the next two batters could go either way since lefty or righty could pinch hit in the pitcher’s spot and then Reyes is a switch hitter.
Oh, lboros and I have been going back and forth at VEB for the past hour and a half, because as I pointed out, they left their bats in St. Louis. He countered with the “you can’t expect them to hit every night” as though hitting against John Maine should somehow be harder than hitting against Tom Glavine.
Other decisions I question:
Lifting Carpenter after 76 pitches when he’d finally started to settle into a groove. Carp cruised through his last inning and was getting the curveball to bite.
Not getting Preston Wilson in the lineup somewhere. Wilson has hit in front of El Hombre in 2 NLCS wins and was 1-4 in the Game 1 loss from the #2 hole. Spiezio’s previous appearance in the #2 hole was the 12-4 beating.
Leaving Scott Rolen in the lineup when he was taking swings that couldn’t drive the ball out of a little league field. Spiezio should have started at third with Wilson in left.
And I still do not understand going to Looper. Babyface was up and loosening and hadn’t pitched in a couple of days, and would have been a better move. Instead, he goes to Looper, then uses Johnson in multiple innings, leaving himself with only one LOOGY in the 'pen for tomorrow night.
I’ve gone back and thought about it, and I somewhat agree now. With any other pitcher, it’s the right call. Looper loses his focus too easily to worry about runners on base, though. Admittedly, that’s probably because he’s still adjusting to not being a closer, since closers typically can ignore a runner they allow on.
If Looper could pitch in New York, he’d still be pitching in New York.
No – Tucker would have beaten anything but an absolutely perfect throw. Looper was slow getting the pitch to the plate – it looked more like an intentional walk pitch than a pitchout – and Molina had to rush the throw.
I was lucky enough to get a ticket to the game, so here’s my opinion from Section 4 in the Loge.
It was the right call, but screwed up by bad execution. LaRussa either stole the sign or figured out it was a steal situation. Going for the pitch-out, you’ve got a pretty good chance of making the out, and if you don’t the runner has a pretty good chance of stealing. The possibility that it wouldn’t work and the pitcher would get rattled enough to give up more runs isn’t really something that I would expect would or should figure into the calculus, even though it’s what happened.
I have a question for those of you who caught the game on TV/Radio: At one point LaRussa came out and started arguing with the home plate umpire on a ball three call when a Cardinal was hitting. We couldn’t figure out what the heck he was arguing about since it was a ball/strike call in his favor, and we didn’t see anything else going on. Do you know what was up?
It was either A) La Russa and Oquendo lost count of the balls and strikes or B) TLR was complaining about Maine going to his mouth on the mound.
TV seemed to think it was a counting error (Buck suggested it might have been the 3rd base umpire’s fault for calling 3-2 when the count was 2-2) but I think it may have been related to Maine’s licking his fingers.