No fucking Slavery Reparations for you!

[pldennison]

Belowjob, I’m not doubting your word, but do you have any links I could take a look at? I certainly remember seeing Yaphet Kotto on Michael Moore’s TV show trying to hail a cab, but without additional evidence, I don’t know that that’s indicative of a widespread problem or something particular to New York City.

A great deal of discussion in this country concerning race is really about class and culture; and while income mobility, at least from the lower to the middle classes, is relatively easy to achieve, class mobility is not. Perception of class is fairly sticky across generations. You can make $200,000 a year, but if you have a broad Southern accent, and drive a great big truck, people are going to perceive you as a hayseed. Sad but true.

Okay, so, let me get this straight. You’e saying that poor white from Appalachia are the equivalent of middle-class blacks?

No, I’m saying that middle-class blacks, while facing racial bias in some real ways, are more assimilated than are rural whites. Middle-class blacks are “in the game,” as it were, and while they may face bias, they have chances that poor whites do not have. I won’t argue the fact that many poor blacks have it a lot worse off than poor whites do.

Sounds like a class issue to me. What’s your point?

The point is that “all whites have benefitted from racism” is itself a racist statement that may not describe the situation of any given white.

Mixed what, male and female? What was the breakdown with respect to “race”?

All three schools were co-ed. Perry, my school, was all white. Painesville had two schools, Harvey and Riverside; Riverside was slightly more white, but both had around 10-20% black student bodies. (Pretty reflective of the population.) Madison, I’d have to guess, was about 5% black.

In any case, claiming that “all blacks are this” or “all whites have done that” gets us nowhere. It sounds trite, but the past really is the past. I feel no personal connection to the legacy of slavery because, as I stated two pages ago, my family wasn’t involved in it, and faced discrimination of their own. I think that apologizing for the government’s condonement of chattel slavery, and acknowledging the role of black slaves in building this nation’s monuments and infrastructure would be a great thing. Beyond that, I already said what I would like to see: race-blindness in all educational and economic opportunities. And I don’t think that continuing to make distinctions based on skin color is a good way to achieve it.

[tomndebb]

Reparations is more about getting redress from the government and corporations that benefited from slavery and from racial descrimination.

I’m glad that this topic is now on the national stage and I’m also glad the some people are feeling uncomfortable about the issue.

It is not about redress, since the people directly affected are long dead. If you want it to be about current improvement, then basing it on a divisive issue is the wrong way to accomplish the goal.
(And going after Aetna for “profiting” from slavery is nonsense. It is going after Aetna, who probably earned a few pennies over a dozen years, on the deep pockets theory of litigation–a theory that has its own issues in terms of a base that is lacking in ethics.)

As for being glad that some people are uncomfortable: if you truly fail to understand just why the people are uncomfortable, you are probably going to fail to understand how this divisive movement is going to actually harm the broader goals of social justice. Note that a number of the people on this thread who have spoken against the reparations idea are either self-professed liberals or have had the “liberal” claim hurled against them in the past. There have been some racist spewings in this thread, but they have not been in the majority of the posts or from the majority of the posters.

I think that it is very true that in general many whites benefitted from racist policies in government and business in the years since the Civil War. I have argued on this MB that the immigrants who landed in the late 19th century and throughout the 20th century and their descendants have (generally) benefitted by the last-hired-first-fired policies and similar actions aimed against blacks and that claims that “we were never helped by racism” are spurious.

However, tying the claims for reparations directly to slavery does place them outside the context of such “inherited responsibility” and will simply anger the majority of them.
Stop and think about the actual goal:
Is it a more just society?
Is it an elimination of poverty?
Is it a leveling of the classes in America?
Is it simply “getting back” at “society” for perceived injustice?

Neither of the first two will actually be served by creating a conflict between those who are persuaded that they are “owed” reparations and those who feel that they are being unduly punished for actions over which they had no control. (Sort of a secular Original Sin that they can’t even remove with Baptism.)
Specifically, reparations will do nothing to help those people who suffer injustice or poverty who cannot show that they are descended from slaves.

I’m not sure that the second two goals are worthy of pursuit.

[mswas]

From EasyPhil:

Now, the White Appalachian example is sort of a joke, because if you take one of them and put them on a street corner in Harlem along with a black person and have them both hail a cab, the Appalachian will, more than likely, get the cab first. If you think this is far fetched, ask Danny Glover and former mayor David Dinkens.

This is irrelevant as your average appalachian will probably never see New York City and even if they did it would be for a vacation and being able to hail a cab easily would be beneath their radar as far as benefits. It basically would have no impact on their lives overall. Yes, I do benefit from being able to hail a cab easily because I live in New York City, but I am not the poor Appalachian. I am from a poor area in New Mexico, and almost my entire graduating class (the ones from the 60% who actually graduated) still lives in my hometown. I’m one of the few who left. There are almost no black people there, so please explain how THEY are benefitting from these policies? Then explain how poor people in Appalachia are benefitting in their day to day lives IN Appalachia, not a “well if they came to New York they would…” because the benefits you’d have in New York from being Cosmopolitan far outweigh any benefits they’d have from being white. So your cab example is a simple cop out.

That’s how you see it. Reparations is more about getting redress from the government and corporations that benefited from slavery and from racial descrimination.

Do you truly honestly not realize that the money you’d take from these entities come from the pockets of people like you and me? If you take money from Aetna it comes from the Dividends of it’s investors. If you take the money from the government it comes from the pockets of the taxpayers. IE, you and I.

Erek

[EasyPhil]

*Originally posted by mswas *
**From EasyPhil:

This is irrelevant as your average appalachian will probably never see New York City and even if they did it would be for a vacation and being able to hail a cab easily would be beneath their radar as far as benefits. It basically would have no impact on their lives overall. Yes, I do benefit from being able to hail a cab easily because I live in New York City, but I am not the poor Appalachian. I am from a poor area in New Mexico, and almost my entire graduating class (the ones from the 60% who actually graduated) still lives in my hometown. I’m one of the few who left. There are almost no black people there, so please explain how THEY are benefitting from these policies? Then explain how poor people in Appalachia are benefitting in their day to day lives IN Appalachia, not a “well if they came to New York they would…” because the benefits you’d have in New York from being Cosmopolitan far outweigh any benefits they’d have from being white. So your cab example is a simple cop out.
**

It is relevant, because it demonstrates how descrimination, based on racism is still practiced today. You know what I’m trying illustrate, you’re just choosing to ignore it to support your point.

**
Do you truly honestly not realize that the money you’d take from these entities come from the pockets of people like you and me? If you take money from Aetna it comes from the Dividends of it’s investors. If you take the money from the government it comes from the pockets of the taxpayers. IE, you and I.

Erek **

I see it more as money well spent, as opposed to a lot of the other stuff that our money is spent on i.e. weapons and armaments well beyond what’s required.

[Shodan]

In reponse to my post

*Originally posted by Shodan *
**
Slavery was legal at the time when Aetna and/or the federal government committed the actions alleged to form the basis for reparations.

The US Constitution states specifically -

Passing legislation to force anyone to pay anyone else based on what was legal at the time is an ex post facto law.
**

was the following:

*Originally posted by EasyPhil *
**

It was also legal for German companies to use Jewish slave labor and it was also legal for the government to inter Japanese Americans during WWII. Both of these groups got apologies and reparations. **

I am late back to this thread, but -

Since the US Constitution cannot be construed to apply to Germany, I don’t think I need to comment on that.

But reparations to Japanese Americans were based on the recognition that the internment was a violation of their rights under the Constitution, at least in part. This is not an ex post facto law; it is a recognition of the role existing law (the Constitution, which is the fundamental law of the US) holds in regulating our freedoms.

Even leaving aside the already-mentioned fact that reparations were not paid to the descendents, but to the internees themselves.

Regards,
Shodan

[Shodan]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
** When colonialism began, Africa had already been fractured by nearly three hundred years of slave-taking and the internecine warfare that accompanied it. (It also gave up as many as 20 million people to the trade.)
**

Actually, it may have been more the other way around. Africa is fractured because of the internecine warfare going on there from time immemorial, and the slave-taking that accompanied. Just as it is today. Therefore, slave taking is not the major factor, but the tribalism and warfare that only abated under colonialism.

Am I allowed to ask for a cite on the 20 million figure in the Pit? That sounds very exaggerated to me, especially if it is intended to refer only to slaves brought to America, the society from whom Louis F. and the Freeloaders are attempting to gain reparations.

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
**
Compare the African societies with, say, Japan or Thailand. If the Africans had been able to import technology in the initial stages of the first European/African meetings and had then banded together under a Shaka-like leader at an earlier moment, there is no guarantee that the colonialism would have occured as it happened. **

Well, hell, we can all imagine scenarios under which sub-Saharan Africa would be a thriving continent instead of a sinkhole. The trouble is that there is no reason why they couldn’t do all that now, or under Nyerere, or at any time else over the last fifty years or so. The fact that they haven’t, and show no likelihood of doing so, means that the scenario is rather far-fetched.

Africa without exporting slaves would be rather like it is now - which makes the question to be put to American blacks (“Are you better now, or were you better back then?”) entirely reasonable.

Regards,
Shodan

[Airman_Doors_USAF]

Wassamatta, EasyPhil, didn’t like my apology? I thought that was all you wanted.

And to think that for all this time, I believed you when you said that’s all you wanted. I obliged you, and you’re STILL talking about money.

:rolleyes:

EARN your money. I’m sick of people walking up to me with their hands out saying I owe them something. I owe myself, my wife, and my son. I sure as hell don’t owe you.

[grendel72]

*Originally posted by tomndebb *
(And going after Aetna for “profiting” from slavery is nonsense. It is going after Aetna, who probably earned a few pennies over a dozen years, on the deep pockets theory of litigation–a theory that has its own issues in terms of a base that is lacking in ethics.)

As a corporate entity it stil exists, the same corporate entity that profitted on the sufferring of slaves.
Several anti-reparationists seem to feel that it’s terrible to even expect them to feel bad about what was done because “I didn’t do nuthin’”. Well in this case the entity that did do something is still around.
I feel like we’re just talking in circles. My ancestors, to the best of my knowledge, never owned slaves. I still feel bad that the legacy of slavery has fucked this country to the extent that if I had somehow been born black I would have achieved even less success than I have in this life.
When I see people here claiming that we should celebrate the white man ending slavery, that blacks should be grateful for slavery, that anyone concerned with social justice is lazy- I want to scream.
I just want to live in a world where people don’t belittle any opinion other than “fuck them, I got mine”. You may call yourselves pragmatists, I call you assholes.

[gobear]

When I see people here claiming that we should celebrate the white man ending slavery,

You want we should mourn it?

that blacks should be grateful for slavery,

Nobody said that.

that anyone concerned with social justice is lazy

Nobody said that either

• I want to scream

As you go through life, you will find that intelligent people are swayed by logic and evidence, not hissy fits.

[tomndebb]

Actually, it may have been more the other way around. Africa is fractured because of the internecine warfare going on there from time immemorial, and the slave-taking that accompanied. Just as it is today. Therefore, slave taking is not the major factor, but the tribalism and warfare that only abated under colonialism.
. . .
Well, hell, we can all imagine scenarios under which sub-Saharan Africa would be a thriving continent instead of a sinkhole. The trouble is that there is no reason why they couldn’t do all that now, or under Nyerere, or at any time else over the last fifty years or so. The fact that they haven’t, and show no likelihood of doing so, means that the scenario is rather far-fetched.

Most comments I’ve seen on Africa prior to the 15th century indicate that its sparse population reduced the amount of contact (and friction) between the various groups. (Less does not equal none.) It was pressure from the slavers for more slaves that provoked and promoted the ongoing warfare.

Tribalism and warfare did not abate under colonialism. Colonialism provided the pressure cooker to force together groups who would normally have chosen to simply not associate. Actual warfare was suppressed (somewhat) for a hundred years or so, but the causes for conflict were increased.

I will certainly note that African leaders in the last 40 years have not helped the cause of development with the sort of leader-takes-all approach that Europe had slowly gotten away from a few centuries earlier. However, with the Soviets and the West playing their games of destabilization for 30 of those forty years, I doubt that Africa would have had the chance to become the economic equal to Europe even without the tribalism and bad leadership.

Between the years 1650 and 1900, historians estimate that at least 28 million Africans were forcibly removed from central and western Africa as slaves (but the numbers involved are controversial). A human catastrophe for Africa, the world African Slave Trade was truly a “Holocaust.” Later on the same page, a different source gives 17 million exported by Arabs via the Indian Ocean, 5 million exported across the Sahara, and 12 million across the Atlantic with an additional 4 million slain in the slavery wars.

While discussions of U.S. responsibility cannot include all those people (the U.S. imported about one half million slaves), a discussion of the effects of slaving on Africa must include those figures.

[grendel72]

*Originally posted by gobear *
**As you go through life, you will find that intelligent people are swayed by logic and evidence, not hissy fits. **

Thanks, guy. This is the type of belittlement I’m talking about.
I have used logic to explain my point, only to be faced with people unwilling to accept the truth. It may be uncomfortable to admit that the legacy of slavery lingers on, but it is true.
I find it amusing that people wasting their fucking time on a message board are calling those who marched for something they know isn’t likely to happen “lazy”. If that’s the case, this is one white man who is proud to be sitting in the “lazy ni**ers” section.

[t-keela]

Grendel72 Sorry to disappoint you, but I never assumed you were black, white, female, male or anything for that matter.

Neither did I express such sentiment. You asked for an apology I apologize, I did not apologize to you. I am truly sorry for anyone that did suffer in this shameful era in American and the World’s history.

When I say “you” can have my riches I was speaking figuratively to those who are in support of paying reparations.

Sorry if I wasn’t clear on this. I just think it’s an absurd idea. We cannot be held responsible for the past atrocities of mankind. We can only do our best to see that it doesn’t reoccur.

This is our shortcoming! The things we let happen now and do nothing about.

Peace

[tomndebb]

As a corporate entity it stil exists, the same corporate entity that profitted on the sufferring of slaves.

However, barring some real numbers showing that their current equity is primarily based on the “enormous” profits they allegedly made, we’re still talking about a “deep pockets” theory. What percent of Aetna’s business was actually devoted to insuring slaves? (And how many claims did they pay out? If they only paid a dozen or two claims, they were not supporting slavery–by keeping the slave-owners in business–they were actually leeching money out of the slave owners that reduced their ability to buy more slaves.)

As for the rest of your post, none of those charges apply to anything that I have said. We probably need a Venn diagram to display the various positions on this issue: there are numerous positions being taken in which some people recognize the evils and lasting effects of slavery, but do not believe reparations will redress those grievances, some people recognize that slavery was evil but do not believe that it had a direct effect on the present, some people believe that reparations claims are simply a scam, and a few people who are, indeed, racist enough to believe that (all) blacks are just looking for handouts. (There may be a way to differentiate among supporters of reparations, as well, but there are fewer of you and I am not sure how different your positions are.)
By lumping together all the opponents of reparations into a group where you do not differentiate among various arguments and imply that all opponents are hate-blinded racists, you weaken your own position by appearing to be unable to address the actual issues. (I am not, personally, taking offense at your comments which may not have been intended to lump all opponents in the racist group, but that is how your argument is coming across.)

[Truth_Seeker]

Tomndebb
As tragic and despicable as the slave trade was, “holocaust” is a bit of a stretch. Even assuming the numbers cited are correct, that works out to be an average of 80,000 a year over a 350 year period. I’m sure that the peak was substantially higher. Nonetheless, it doesn’t come anywhere close to the six million Jews and five million assorted others that were killed by the Nazis in the six years between 1939 and 1945.

There’s also an unspoken assumption here that I find somewhat disturbing, to wit, “the devil made me do it.” Yes, outsiders provided the market, but that hardly excuses Africans for willingly participating in it. If we’re going to be handing it out, there is plenty of guilt to go around.

BTW, everyone realizes, I assume, that the United States no longer engaged in the trans-atlantic slave trade after 1810. In 1819, in fact, it enacted a law making the slave trade equivalent to piracy and punishable by death.

[grendel72]

Originally posted by tomndebb *
** However, barring some real numbers showing that their current equity is primarily based on the “enormous” profits they allegedly made, we’re still talking about a “deep pockets” theory. What percent of Aetna’s business was actually devoted to insuring slaves? (And how many claims did they pay out? If they only paid a dozen or two claims, they were not supporting slavery–by keeping the slave-owners in business–they were actually leeching money out of the slave owners that reduced their ability to buy more slaves.)*

But they are still around, and they profitted on the suffering of slaves.

Originally posted by tomndebb
**By lumping together all the opponents of reparations into a group where you do not differentiate among various arguments and imply that all opponents are hate-blinded racists, you weaken your own position by appearing to be unable to address the actual issues. (I am not, personally, taking offense at your comments which may not have been intended to lump all opponents in the racist group, but that is how your argument is coming across.) **

I appologise for that.
Allow me to restate my position. I think reparations from the gov’t are a bad idea, it seems like they wouldn’t do anough good to be worth the logistical nightmare and bad feelings that would be engendered. Corporate reparations are a little more iffy for me, the wrongdoers are still in existence.
Whether reparations are made or not, I feel that modern racism is in large part a holdover from slavery- I’m sure it would exist no matter what, but not in such a virulent form.
I’m sorry to have lumped all anti-reparationists together, quite a few of you have good points, but I think I have some good points as well and it seems everything I post is swatted down without even being considered- and the ones who stand out, the ones who are shouting the loudest without saying anything, are jerks.
All I want is for some people to quit being such smug, self righteous assholes about it.

[mswas]

*Originally posted by EasyPhil *

It is relevant, because it demonstrates how descrimination, based on racism is still practiced today. You know what I’m trying illustrate, you’re just choosing to ignore it to support your point.

No, I am not ignoring that, because the racists tendencies of New York cab drivers do not benefit Appalachian whites. Basically you want to lump all whites into this nice neat little category, that just doesn’t work. Here I thought we were talking about racism in America and not racism in New York. If you have to say “Well they would benefit from racism IF they…” then your argument starts to thin even more.

I see it more as money well spent, as opposed to a lot of the other stuff that our money is spent on i.e. weapons and armaments well beyond what’s required.

So because you disagree with what the government spends the money on currently, they might as well just give it to you?
As for the “we should apologize” argument. Well, I’m sorry you suffer from racism, but I don’t TRY to oppress you and if I do discriminate unintentionally, I apologize for that, but if you want me to apologize for what any other person has done to you in your lifetime and especially to someone other than you in a time when you weren’t even born yet, you can go fuck yourself.

My father felt that his father was unfair to him. Should I feel guilty for what my grandfather did to my father? I feel my father was unfair to me, should I feel guilty for what my father did to me? Should I learn all about history so I know what guilt and baggage I should be carrying around? My family was a long line of western pioneers. They didn’t own slaves but I’d be willing to be there were some altercations with native Americans, so maybe I should feel sorry for that, but I’m not sorry for slavery, I had nothing to do with it and had no power to prevent it. I have German blood going back probably 15 generations, and I don’t feel the need to apologize to my Israeli wife for the Holocaust.

If I ever discriminated against you personally, or anyone that you know, then I truely am sorry and I’ll try to fix that. However, I am tired of YOU discriminating against me by expecting me to apologize for something that someone who resembled me did two hundred years prior to my birth, let alone expecting me to pay for it.

Erek

[tomndebb]

As tragic and despicable as the slave trade was, “holocaust” is a bit of a stretch. Even assuming the numbers cited are correct, that works out to be an average of 80,000 a year over a 350 year period. I’m sure that the peak was substantially higher. Nonetheless, it doesn’t come anywhere close to the six million Jews and five million assorted others that were killed by the Nazis in the six years between 1939 and 1945.

There’s also an unspoken assumption here that I find somewhat disturbing, to wit, “the devil made me do it.” Yes, outsiders provided the market, but that hardly excuses Africans for willingly participating in it. If we’re going to be handing it out, there is plenty of guilt to go around.

I’m sorry, but the objection to the word holocaust is a red herring. I was asked for numbers and that site (whatever political or philosophical problems it may have) provided them. I have seen the number given as high as 40 million, but I will not use that higher number without more evidence.

Given that up to 20% of those taken in slavery may have died in transit, the number of deaths does get into the millions and I fail to see how “pro-rating” them by year mitigates the tragedy. At any rate, my point on the numbers was in relation to the damage done to Africa as a region, and 20 million to 32 million people forcibly removed from a location on the brink of a cultural leap is devastating. (For comparison, the much more heavily populated Europe lost “only” 25 million people to the bubonic plague.)

And while there may be a “they forced me” aspect to some claims about slavery, that is not a position that I have maintained. (I have also not focused the blame on either the U.S. or Europeans, noting the Arab participation, throughout.) Africans certainly participated in the trade. Still, it was the introduction of the commodity market that caused them to change their own practices.

But they are still around, and they profitted on the suffering of slaves.

Their profits are yet to be demonstrated. Yes, they are still around, but they are being targeted on a deep pockets theory, not because insuring some unidentified number of slaves substantially supported the institution. If it turns out that Aetna insured fewer than 1,000 slaves, (out of 3.9 million slaves), will you still hold that they owe all the current descendants of slaves thousands of dollars?

[EasyPhil]

*Originally posted by mswas *
**No, I am not ignoring that, because the racists tendencies of New York cab drivers do not benefit Appalachian whites. Basically you want to lump all whites into this nice neat little category, that just doesn’t work. Here I thought we were talking about racism in America and not racism in New York. If you have to say “Well they would benefit from racism IF they…” then your argument starts to thin even more.
**

What you’ve missed here is that most of the cab drivers in NYC are people of color from other countries, but they’ve been made to think a certain way about black americans and will stop for a white person first. My point is to illustrate how whites benefit from racism to this very day.

**
So because you disagree with what the government spends the money on currently, they might as well just give it to you?

**

No they shouldn’t give it to me, they should use it to rebuild the infrastructure of this country and realize how important it is to make sure that all people have access to the highest quality education and healthcare.

**
As for the “we should apologize” argument. Well, I’m sorry you suffer from racism, but I don’t TRY to oppress you and if I do discriminate unintentionally, I apologize for that, but if you want me to apologize for what any other person has done to you in your lifetime and especially to someone other than you in a time when you weren’t even born yet, you can go fuck yourself.
**

Shit, I didn’t ask you to apologize to me for anything. What ever gave you that fucking idea? Use your time an energy to minimize your unintentional descrimation, a more useful persuit.

[QUOTE]
**
My father felt that his father was unfair to him. Should I feel guilty for what my grandfather did to my father? I feel my father was unfair to me, should I feel guilty for what my father did to me?**

[QUOTE]

What you could feel, is compassion and empathy for each and every human being. As for the guilt, that’s something you’ll have to work out with a qualified therapist.

[Truth_Seeker]

Well, if we’re going to be ranking disasters and their effects on population, the African slave trade’s effect on Africa isn’t going to top the list.

**I fail to see how “pro-rating” them by year mitigates the tragedy.

**
In might not mitigate the tragedy but it certainly mitigates the impact the tragedy had on African society.

**At any rate, my point on the numbers was in relation to the damage done to Africa as a region, and 20 million to 32 million people forcibly removed from a location on the brink of a cultural leap is devastating. (For comparison, the much more heavily populated Europe lost “only” 25 million people to the bubonic plague.)

**
Balderdash. That’s twenty million people forcibly removed over a 350 year period. By contrast, the European plague in 1347-1350 did kill “only” 25 million people — out of a total population of about 40 million, and all in less than four years.

The conquest of the New World was infinitely more damaging than the slave trade in Africa. Estimates are difficult to come by, but over about a 300 year period, the native population in the Americas declined by between 50 and 80 million people. The cultural impact of colonialism in the New World was also far greater than in Africa. For one thing, Africa at least saw it coming. Europeans didn’t really penetrate the interior of Africa until the nineteenth century. Africans were buying European firearms by the mid sixteenth century. The Incas and the Aztecs, by contrast, never knew what hit them.

There are any number of things that had enormous impact on human history and that caused huge loss of life. Yes, the slave trade was a very bad thing. But, as bad as it was, the African slave trade was just another one of those historical events and it was far from the worst one.

[Squish]

*Originally posted by grendel72 *
As I pointed out in my anecdote earlier, we have benefitted whether we like it or not, simply by not having our hopes and dreams discouraged as children. By competing in a much smaller pool of qualified employees than we would if potential wasn’t discouraged in others.

Sheesh, anecdotal evidence. OK, then here’s my anecdote: my high school counselor was black. Based on my grades and test scores, she advised me to go to college. When I told her my family couldn’t afford it, her response was something like, “Oh, that’s too bad.” It was a white student teacher who advised me to apply for a grant–I didn’t even know they existed. He took me to the counseling office and picked up packets, pamphlets and applications for a variety of grants and scholarships.

Years later, my high school counselor and her sister were spotlighted in the local media for their “noble work” in setting up a scholarship for black children. I don’t know how many other poor white children she neglected who didn’t have the benefit of caring teachers to fill the gap.