I DO have my book handy: pg 114, ROTK, Ballantine paperback circa 2001:
" ‘Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!’ "
(Note use of the word hinder, and not kill.)
"Then Merry heard of all sounds in that hour the strangest. It seemed that Dernhelm laughed, and the clear voice was like the ring of steel. ‘But no living man am I! You look upon a woman. Eowyn I am, Eomund’s daughter. You stand between me and my lord and kin. Begone, if you be not deathless! For living or dark undead, I will smite you if you touch him.’ "
And further on, (pg 116)
“Merry’s sword had stabbed him from behind . . . " and " . . . with the last of her strength she drove her sword between crown and mantle, as the great shoulders bowed before her.”
I still haven’t gotten around to reading the books, but, through osmosis, I believe Sauron was not defeated by having his ring finger or arm chopped off.
Sauron, after 7 years of siege in Mordor came forth and battled Gil-galad (Elven king) and Elendil (High King of Gondor and Anor) on the slope of Mt Doom. There Sauron killed both kings but fell at which point Isildur claims the ring and Sauron’s spirit flees.
Yeah, but unlike in the movie where they knocked his fingers off with a lucky blow, in the books they managed to kill his physical body in the battle and went back for the ring afterward.
Pretty much. The combined might of Gil-galad High King of the Noldor and Elendil High King of the Dunedain was required, and they both died doing the deed (with Gil-galad’s spear Aeglos being consumed by flame, and Elendil’s blade Narsil shattering.) But they cast Sauron down. Isildur then did his surgical work with the shards of Narsil.
There is some question as to whether or not “casting him down” meant killing his body. But later JRRT writings suggested it was so, IIRC.
quick LOTR questions I’ll post here, since this is the only active LOTR thread & I don’t think I need to start a new one -
-What happened to the sons of Elrond? did they stay in Middle Earth? or sail away?
-Did Frodo ever tell anyone that he didn’t destroy the ring? Folks must have asked, hey how’d you lose that finger? wonder what he told them. my own theory is that he felt he failed at the end and his guilt added to his PTSD.
I love this turn of phrase, as it highlights the little known fact that the Barrow Downs are the ruined remains of an Angmarese concentration camp for defeated Arnorians, and the blade that was the “work of Westernesse” was a jailhouse shiv fashioned out of a stolen spoon and vengeful magic (that’s why it’s small/short enough for a Hobbit to use).
…glad would he have been to know its fate who wrought it slowly long ago in the North-kingdom when the Dunedain were young, and chief among their foes was the dread realm of Angmar and its sorcerer king. That all those hours spent quietly scraping a dull spoon into a stabby point after lights-out would finally come to sweet, sweet fruition. And the oatmeal they slopped out for breakfast, lunch and dinner. How he would loathe Angmarean oatmeal!
I’ve got to agree that’s some silly semantic parsing. If it’s just the witch-king being arrogant and has no real justification, that’s one thing. But for it to be an actual charm or something, that’s pretty silly. He infests a world that includes Elves, Dwarfs, Hobbits, etc, and all he’s worried about is Men?
Witch-King: “No living Man can hinder me.”
Aragorn: “Oh, well, it’s not my intention to intrude or obstruct your passing. I merely wish to terminate your existence. Then you can carry on unhindered.”
Alt
Aragorn: “Yes, but you see I brought all these ghosts of oath-breakers with me, and you see, they are not living.”
Alt
Aragorn: “Well, I thought of that. Have you met my friends, Legolas and Gimli?”
Alt
Aragorn: “You wish.”
“Frodo, of the nine fingers, and the ring of dooooom.”
In that version, everyone seemed to know what happened. I don’t think he has to claim failure, and I’m sure he explained that when he got to the top of Mount Doom, Gollum intercepted and took the fateful plunge with the ring. Not exactly a glorious victory for Frodo, but he got the ring all the way there, and the ring was destroyed, so close enough for hand grenades. But you’re probably right. I seem to recall Frodo was haunted forever afterwards. Didn’t he go to the West with the others rather early?
Yes, over the next few years he was repeatedly ill on three anniversaries: of the stabbing on Weathertop, of being bitten by Shelob, and of the destruction of the Ring. Not so much over being haunted with grief over his failure, in the last case, but because “all is dark and empty” since the Ring was destroyed.
Frodo went to the Havens just two and a half years after the downfall of Sauron.
I think it was just general overall trauma-- You can’t pin it down to just the destruction of the Ring, or just the Morgul-knife wound, or just any one other thing. Nor, I think, can you really even separate out those events at all.
Furthermore, Frodo was deeply and permanently affected by having borne the Ring so long. His burden got heavier the closer he came to Mordor. Even once the Ring was destroyed, he recovered to but not beyond a certain extent. To quote the Professor:
