Perish the thought that someone might try to draw a parallel with what happened in the early and mid 1980s. :rolleyes:
I completely acknowledge that Britain has social problems, I’ve never said otherwise, but I will never accept that public thuggery and violence is the solution to those problems. Like I said, this isn’t Libya. Any problems we have have to be solved legally. I’m not saying that these rioters are evil from birth and beyond redemption, I’m not dehumanising them or saying that some of them might have some legitimate issues, but I am calling for them to be responsible for their actions and face the appropriate legal penalties if they break the law.
And god forbid I should ever be a Daily Mail reader!
Fair enough, and point well made, but if it’s a phenomenon then the people that took part in it should face the consequences for their actions.
Almost certainly, yes.
Well, Cameron is having to cut his holiday short, poor lamb.
If you feel that these kids are right on the money, then I absolutely have to disagree with you. Violent destruction isn’t the answer, and if you honestly believe that they’re right and that they simply had no other possible option except to riot, then I don’t think we’ll ever see eye to eye. Even if it’s “their life, right here, right now”, what gives them the right to endanger the lives of others?
Do you feel that they should *not *be punished for their actions?
What if they can’t be?
Which cuts are you talking about here?
Sorry, I don’t believe that. Some of them might have been, but not all of them. What about the ones that met through social networking sites for the specific purpose of causing damage and stealing?
You know what I mean. Do you think that they should not be punished for their actions?
Isn’t that because he saw the destruction of private property and thought it was a meeting of the Bullingdon Club, and that they never got his new address for the invitation?
It’s intersting that a few weeks ago the Guardian was reporting that the Metropolitan Police anti-terror unit was asking the public to report anyone with anarchist sympathies.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/jul/31/westminster-police-anarchist-whistleblower-advice
I wonder if they know something that we don’t.
Good question.
I honestly believe that if a government has so oppressed its people so as to make peaceful change impossible, then it makes violent protest inevitable. I paraphrased that from John F. Kennedy and it’s a great quote, but my point is that the UK isn’t like that. We don’t live in a totalitarian regime where dissent is crushed and people live in fear of torture, execution or disappearance. Like I said, this isn’t Libya.
Sorry, I must have missed the part where Twitter was a pay service for middle-class and up people only.
I certainly hope so, but they keep getting bonuses and bailouts and who knows what else.
I know. However, what if they can’t solve their problems legally because the government is simply ignoring them? Not one where dissent is crushed, but simply ignored.
We do however live in a society where peacefull dissent is utterly ignored.
Up thread there is a quote from one of the rioters saying that a few weeks befor they had organised a peacefull march of a couple of thousand and it wasn’t mentioned by the media at all.
Now you’re simply dodging the question, so I’ll ask it again. What about the ones that met through social networking sites for the specific purpose of causing damage and stealing? Were they all dissaffected youths too?
And do you think the rioters should face punishment for committing arson, criminal damage, robbery and theft? If not, why not?
Another good point. In that case you change the government.
I am not knowledgeable enough to say all, but it does seem most are, yes. What does social networking have to do with it?
I’ve never been philosophically in favour of punitive retribution. I support rehabilitation for offenders and reconstruction. Right now, to me that looks like fundamental change towards social and economic equality, but I’m not holding out hope for that any time soon.
Seconded, there is a giant excluded middle here, it seems to me.
That was a good quote, and it’s genuinely disturbing to hear that the media basically ignored what sounded like a significant march. But torching building with people in them isn’t the solution. If the government ignores you, change the government. That’s what your vote is for.
“If voting changed anything, they’d abolish it.” Ken Livingstone.