No Problem

[Kalhoun]

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
Your cite said specifically that customers were dissatisfied at having to wait for service, and at sales people “acting like the customer was not even there.” My impression is that those two grievance go together – that customers don’t like being ignored when they’re waiting for service. That’s an entirely different issue. I believe (notice I said “believe”), that most customers are probably satisfied as long as they get their transaction processed in a timely and efficient manner, and as long as the person at the till is not overtly rude. I think that not saying a word would be rude, but saying “Hello…that will be 5.99” is sufficiently (if minimally) civil and professional that most people would not feel that they had been treated poorly or rudely in doing their business.
[/QUOTE]

My impression is that they’re independent of each other. “acting like the customer was not even there” would (to most people) include being treated indifferently.

How would you feel if your example did not include the “hello”?

Good customer service includes more than completing the transaction. It includes smiling, engaging, and thanking. Is that too fucking tough for the average jerky clerk? We were taught those employee skills at Micky D’s, and until the last few years I expected that much. Unfortunately, these days it seems it is becoming increasingly rare to avoid stepping in the shit that passes for customer service.

[Diogenes_the_Cynic]

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
My impression is that they’re independent of each other. “acting like the customer was not even there” would (to most people) include being treated indifferently.
[/quote]

I don’t think so. The rest of the article was all about people waiting for service – robot phones, etc.

How would you feel if your example did not include the “hello”?

It would be scraping the bottom for minimal civility, but I wouldn’t care personally. My goal in a transaction is to pay for my shit and go. As long as they do that much right, I’m good. Removing the “hello” is moving the goal posts on your part, though.

Good customer service includes more than completing the transaction. It includes smiling, engaging, and thanking.

I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree, but I still think the omission of a “thank you,” in and of itself, is not particularly rude or uncivil.

We were taught those employee skills at Micky D’s, and until the last few years I expected that much. Unfortunately, these days it seems it is becoming increasingly rare to avoid stepping in the shit that passes for customer service.

You get what you pay for.

[threnodyangelfire]

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
It would be a fireable offense if it was my employee. I might remind someone once, but I would make it clear that thanking my customers should be as automatic as punching in or collecting one’s paycheck.

And I suppose this is what annoys me. When people come to this thread telling me that common civility is no longer presumed in our society, it makes me a little angry (and a lot sad).
[/QUOTE]

Don’t ever come to Australia then. You will be beseiged by “no worries”, “no problem” and “cheers” all in place of “thank you”. I find none of these rude in the slightest.

And I don’t think any of these are indication that “common civility is no longer presumed in our society”. Language changes over time. All of the above are acceptable, polite and cheery. Just because they’re not as formal as the traditional “thank you” doesn’t mean they’re not appropriate.

I sincerely hope this is all that annoys in your day to day life.

[Spiny_Norman]

[QUOTE=Kalhoun]
IWhen people come to this thread telling me that common civility is no longer presumed in our society, it makes me a little angry (and a lot sad).
[/QUOTE]

From where I stand, the employee’s words were perfectly civil. I think the issue is that for a lot of people, “No problem” is definitely polite and it’s certainly common enough. Social mores change. Incidentally, having someone meet a “thank you” with a sentiment of “no thanks needed” is not a new phenomenon - it is certainly common enough in any number of languages.

Insisting that an employee must address a customer with a specific phrase leads to such atrocities as employee handbooks listing the permissible greetings (they exist). I’d rather interact with a human being, warts and all, than with a pre-programmed wetware bagging unit.

[fluiddruid]

I truly do not understand why people would take offense to this.

“No problem” is something I picked up - maybe it’s a regional thing - I use it with customers all the time. It is not used in the place of “thank you” but instead of “you’re welcome”. If I got fired for it, I would be glad; I wouldn’t want to work for someone so vicious and petty.

[Biggirl]

Waitaminnit! Is the same poster who wanted to give every benefit of the smallest shadow of doubt to the customer who made my daughter, a store clerk, cry with her rude and racist behavior announcing the death of civility because a clerk said ‘no problem’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’?

My, my-- how far the tolerant have fallen.

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

[QUOTE=Biggirl]
Waitaminnit! Is the same poster who wanted to give every benefit of the smallest shadow of doubt to the customer who made my daughter, a store clerk, cry with her rude and racist behavior announcing the death of civility because a clerk said ‘no problem’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’?

My, my-- how far the tolerant have fallen.
[/QUOTE]
Hey, be fair – this time it’s her own ox with the bloody gaping hole in its side.

[Scotticher]

[QUOTE=Biggirl]
Waitaminnit! Is the same poster who wanted to give every benefit of the smallest shadow of doubt to the customer who made my daughter, a store clerk, cry with her rude and racist behavior announcing the death of civility because a clerk said ‘no problem’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’?

My, my-- how far the tolerant have fallen.
[/QUOTE]

I just read that thread. Good golly, I don’t have words…well, I actually do, but my mom lives on in my internal censor.

Hug your daughter for me, and tell her that the world is changing. Slowly, but surely. I pray that by the time her children are born, it’ll be a whole lot better. I pray.

[Spice_Weasel]

[hijack]

Waitaminnit! Is the same poster who wanted to give every benefit of the smallest shadow of doubt to the customer who made my daughter, a store clerk, cry with her rude and racist behavior announcing the death of civility because a clerk said ‘no problem’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’?

Okay, that thread damn near broke my heart. I know I really shouldn’t be surprised, considering how often I have to hear racist bullshit from my own relatives, but a part of me really doesn’t want to believe people are still hurt in this way. It’s incomprehensibly senseless. I’m sorry for everything you, Biggirl, and your daughter have been through as a result of human idiocy. I hope you are able to find comfort in the… aw fuck, there are really no words…

[Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus]

Wait, I’m unclear on this. Do you mean that the retail clerks are just saying no problem, or no worries not in response to anything said by the customer, but just as a general pleasantry, the way they usually say “thank you?”

I wouldn’t get all huffy about it, since I’d recognize the intent as being the same, but it does sound strange. I’ve never heard it, is it only Australia and New Zealand?

[Plynck]

[QUOTE=Diogenes the Cynic]
If you get your correct change, you should consider the transaction successful.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks for setting the bar, but I can still see some daylight underneath.
[QUOTE=tomndebb]
“No problem” means “you’re welcome” and has for many years. I have not tracked down its origin, yet, but it is very much in keeping with the Spanish expression de nada, (literally “of nothing”), or the expression in English, “Don’t mention it.”
[/QUOTE]
Tom, I’ll disagree here to some extent.

If one asks another for a favor - something that one might not be expected to do at that time - then “No Problem” forestalls the sense of obligation that might be assumed.

“Hey, when you’re in the kitchen, can you get me a glass of water?”

“On your way into work tomorrow, can you drop this off with the client?”

On the other hand, “No problem” from someone paid to do exactly what they are doing implies that in some circumstance that would be a problem, but they are making an exception this time.

Unfortunately, I think that these have been conflated and I anticipate that I will hear this for the rest of my life. It’s curious, because it is just as easy and costs just as much to say “You’re welcome”. I suspect that some service personnel in lower paying jobs, feeling resentment, would be unwilling to change their response even if they were aware of this distinction because etiquette and civility are only considered appropriate in higher paying service positions. If you would disagree, then consider whether you would hear a clerk at Macy’s or at an upscale hotel say “No problem” when asked for service. I know managers in both, and they would be appalled to hear that their clerks spoke that way. Clerks may mention the name of their employer ad nauseam ([bright smile]“Thank you for shopping at Macy’s”[/bright smile]), but that is for another pit thread.

[Little_Plastic_Ninja]

Sheesh.

What the heck is the point in getting het up when someone’s not actually trying to insult you? When someone is not, to the best of their knowledge, trying to be insulting? They think they’re being POLITE. Do you honestly think “No problem!” is equivalent to “mmm hmm” or being ignored?

They’re acknowledging your thanks cheerfully, just with a phrase you don’t prefer.

I’m in telephone customer service, and I end all my calls the same way: “Is there anything else I can help you with today?” Presuming the answer is no: “Well, thanks for calling and have a good day!” I tend to get the response of “Mhm, 'bye,” which I think is rather less nice than “You too! Bye!” but the infinitesimal annoyance of this doesn’t even survive long enough for me to drive home and post about it.

I DO say “no problem” during calls, though. It’s usually in the vein of “Thanks so much for doing this extra thing for me!” “No problem, it’s just my job.” I say no problem even when it is a problem, even when I’m being kept on the phone for forty-five minutes and I could be doing something much more productive. I don’t know – ‘you’re welcome’ usually seems very unnatural to me in most of these situations.

“Sure, I’ll transfer you over to <blah>.”

“Thanks!”

“No problem, have a good day!”

Funny how often I get kudos from customers for my awesome customer service.

[Left_Hand_of_Dorkness]

As someone else said, the cashier should be civil to you because you’re a human being, not because you’re a customer. The financial transaction is devoid of obligation: you’re paying a store manager to provide a product (which includes service), and if you’re not satisfied with the product, you’re welcome to seek a different product elsewhere. Continuing to shop at a place with a dissatisfying product is your problem, not theirs.

But because you’re a human, the cashier should treat you with courtesy. And because they’re human, you should treat them with courtesy.

A problem may enter the situation when you and the cashier have different social norms. When that happens, the best thing you can do is to be tolerant. Instead of assuming that they’re dissing you like an insecure gangster, assume that they’re providing you with the same level of courtesy that they hope for from you. If it’s different from what makes you comfortable, that’s interesting, but it doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re showing you contempt.

If they are showing you contempt, then they’re being as awful to you as probably a dozen customers are to them every day. That’s no excuse, of course–but it is worth keeping in mind that the folks working retail are subjected to a lot more discourtesy in a single shift than you’re probably subjected to all month.

Daniel

[tomndebb]

[QUOTE=Plynck]
Thanks for setting the bar, but I can still see some daylight underneath.Tom, I’ll disagree here to some extent.

If one asks another for a favor - something that one might not be expected to do at that time - then “No Problem” forestalls the sense of obligation that might be assumed.

“Hey, when you’re in the kitchen, can you get me a glass of water?”

“On your way into work tomorrow, can you drop this off with the client?”

On the other hand, “No problem” from someone paid to do exactly what they are doing implies that in some circumstance that would be a problem, but they are making an exception this time.

Unfortunately, I think that these have been conflated and I anticipate that I will hear this for the rest of my life. It’s curious, because it is just as easy and costs just as much to say “You’re welcome”. I suspect that some service personnel in lower paying jobs, feeling resentment, would be unwilling to change their response even if they were aware of this distinction because etiquette and civility are only considered appropriate in higher paying service positions. If you would disagree, then consider whether you would hear a clerk at Macy’s or at an upscale hotel say “No problem” when asked for service. I know managers in both, and they would be appalled to hear that their clerks spoke that way. Clerks may mention the name of their employer ad nauseam ([bright smile]“Thank you for shopping at Macy’s”[/bright smile]), but that is for another pit thread.
[/QUOTE]
As I noted, earlier, most of the “social lubricants” of civility eventually become a matter of rote. A person who has gotten into the habit (through cultural osmosis) of using the phrase “no problem” where another person might use “you’re welcome” is not making the conscious decision to treat the issue as a matter of disdain, s/he is simply reaching for a social convention and coming up with the one with which s/he is most familiar.

[Canadjun]

[QUOTE=Plynck]

On the other hand, “No problem” from someone paid to do exactly what they are doing implies that in some circumstance that would be a problem, but they are making an exception this time.
[/QUOTE]

As has been said in many other threads, the English language is not static. “You’re welcome” literally speaking doesn’t make any more sense under those circumstances than “No problem”, except that that usage is older for “You’re welcome” than it is for “No problem”. You’re welcome to what (or where)?

See for example the Online Etymology Dictionary.

Welcome
O.E. wilcuma, exclamation of kindly greeting, from earlier wilcuma (n.) “welcome guest,” lit. “one whose coming is in accord with another’s will,” from willa “pleasure, desire, choice” (see will (v.)) + cuma “guest,” related to cuman (see come). Cf. O.H.G. willicomo, M.Du. wellecome. Meaning “entertainment or public reception as a greeting” is recorded from 1530. You’re welcome as a formulaic response to thank you is attested from 1907. Welcome mat first recorded 1951; welcome wagon is attested from 1961. The verb is O.E. wilcumian

[shamrock227]

I stopped by the grocery store this evening for a few things. I wouldn’t have even noticed the interaction if it wasn’t for this thread.

Me: Hello
Grocery Store Girl: Hi, How are you today?
Me: Good and you? *
GSG: Great
As I was doing my thing with my debit card she bagged my groceries
Me: Thanks
GSG: Sure. Have a nice evening.
Me: You too.

All in all I thought it was a very pleasant transaction. And only one “thank you” (mine) and no “you’re welcome” involved at all.

I’m trying hard to see your point, Kalhoun, but I think I am missing it. Would you have been annoyed that she said “sure” instead of “you’re welcome” and “have a nice evening” instead of “thank you, come again” (or something along those lines)? If so, then I have to disagree.

I’m just one of the working masses on my way home interacting with another of the working masses who is still at work. We are exchanging pleasantries. I don’t think the exact words really matter. I don’t mean rudeness or being ignored - but “no problem”, “de nada”, “sure thing”, “have a good one”, what’s the difference, really? In the end you still dealt with someone who was congenial and a good representative for their store.

• Actually my day was pretty crappy. But, I’m sure they don’t pay her enough to have to listen to all that…

[EddyTeddyFreddy]

[QUOTE=shamrock227]

• Actually my day was pretty crappy. But, I’m sure they don’t pay her enough to have to listen to all that…
  [/QUOTE]
  Hey, you didn’t take it out on her, an easy victim for displacement of your bad feelings. Instead you had a pleasant experience, and I bet when you walked out of that store your mood was a bit lighter than it was when you went in.

In fact, you probably felt better than you would have if you HAD unloaded your crappy day on her, whether by venting some steam in her defenseless direction or bitching to her about the things that had crappified your day. You got taken – you took yourself – out of the crap-rut to a place where being around other human beings was actually a pleasure, not more of the same pain.

[Really_Not_All_That_Bright]

So… I’ve worked (commissioned) retail for the last four years, and I have NEVER thanked a customer for making a purchase… and yet my customers come back. Some have even altered their vacation plans to coincide with my schedule (I HAVE thanked people for coming to see me, on the other hand).

If somebody thanks me, I’ll say you’re welcome (no problem might be applicable depending on the age of the person I’m responding to). I will thank them for handing me their credit card, for signing their name, for providing a shipping address, whatever; however, I won’t ever thank them for buying something. We have completed a commercial transaction. Yes, you handed me money- or a credit card- but here’s the thing… You didn’t give it to me. You exchanged it for a product. I give you said product in lieu of a thank you.

I’ve never had a firefighter thank me for paying my taxes, and thus, his salary. Ungrateful gits.

[Don_t_fight_the_hypothetical]

[QUOTE=Biggirl]
Waitaminnit! Is the same poster who wanted to give every benefit of the smallest shadow of doubt to the customer who made my daughter, a store clerk, cry with her rude and racist behavior announcing the death of civility because a clerk said ‘no problem’ instead of ‘you’re welcome’?

My, my-- how far the tolerant have fallen.
[/QUOTE]

Biggirl, I didn’t even have to read the link, I remember it.
I have gotten my white ass kicked standing up for justice. And I’m from Texas!

This isn’t about this thread or that. It’s about principals…

Yes, Kalhoon, I agree.

Steven

[Bambi_Hassenpfeffer]

[QUOTE=Really Not All That Bright]
So… I’ve worked (commissioned) retail for the last four years, and I have NEVER thanked a customer for making a purchase… and yet my customers come back. Some have even altered their vacation plans to coincide with my schedule (I HAVE thanked people for coming to see me, on the other hand).
[/QUOTE]
What he said, almost.

I work for a regional chain renowned in its industry for customer service. I have worked in the same department for 8 years, 7 of them in a supervisory role. I have worked in 4 different locations long-term, and I spent a year doing training at over 90 of our locations for the corporate office.

I almost never thank a customer at the end of the transaction. If I need something in the middle (like an ID), I’ll request it and follow up with a thanks after getting it, but it sounds awkward at the end.

I ordinarily finalize my transactions like this:

Me: Will that be it for you?
Customer: Yup / yes / yeah / for now / I think so
Me: OK, your total is $104.69.

The customer will pay me, and then I hand over the change and / or the receipt. Most of the customers, when the money hits their hands, will say thanks to me, which I follow up with “You’re welcome. Have a good one! See you next week / tomorrow / later.”

If they’re buying something from the Lottery, I’ll swap “Good luck!” in for “Have a good one!”. But I rarely end with a thanks.

Yet, somehow, in these 8 years, I have gotten exactly 2 customer complaints. Neither one was because I didn’t say thank you – one said I was a liar about the sales tax laws (which was untrue) and the other one was actually legitimate, but I had just lost my grandfather so I was a little on-edge. In addition to that, I’ve had customers follow me from my last 2 stores to my current one – one’s 2 miles west and the other’s 2 miles south, so it’s not crazy far for them to drive.

So, explain to me why you think I’m rude, and why you think I shouldn’t be permitted do my job when clearly I am incapable of expressing my gratitude to you in a way you feel is appropriate. Tell my regulars, whom I see (and have seen, in some cases for years) every couple of days that my not saying thanks is an unforgivable lapse in etiquette. And for your finale, explain why “No problem!” is so much ruder than “Thank you.”