As Little Plastic Ninja notes, for me it’s about tone and intent. A warm smile and a brief exchange is sufficient for me. I don’t tend to shop at places because the clerks are nice, but rather because the place is convenient and offers decent prices. I wish I did it for the former reasons but I’m not in a position to pay 20 percent more for pleasantness.
Why get het up over “no sweat,” “no worries,” or “no problem?” Unless someone is going to great personal lengths to serve you, that’s exactly what it is - it’s no problem to serve you, it’s my job and I enjoy it. I’m a “no problem” responder. Just because I literally mean it. It wasn’t a problem for me to hold the door for you/give you a ride to the bus stop/meet with you after a class. I don’t like people feeling obligated to me for something I would simply just do, if I notice someone needs help or I’m asked to do something minor.
What I don’t get is when I say “thank you” and the person doesn’t respond. Is it too much of an imposition to recognize my gratitude? (I suppose a smile would suffice, but around here you sometimes just get a grunt back.) I also hate the people who bump into you, and I say “excuse me” or “I’m sorry” out of habit, and they say nothing. You bumped into me, jackass!
It has been my observation that people who are constantly complaining about the wrongs done them by all the peons they have to live among tend to be somewhat less than remarkably self-aware when it comes to their own shortcomings.
And you have to believe me because I am alive and breathing and I said so.
Who gives a fuck?! Why do you need an obviously prescripted, canned, and insincere phrase to be said for you to not freak the fuck out? Get therapy man.
Why should a sale require a thank you? You didn’t give away your money as an act of charity - you paid for a purchase. If you’re entitled to a thank you for giving the clerk a dollar, then he’s entitled to a thank you for giving you a pack of gum. In fact, he’s more entitled than you are - you get to keep the gum but he’s just passing the dollar to the store.
Yeah, I agree the OP was a bit lame, but stop throwing my fucking change on the counter as you say “No Problem”, you sorry little dweeb. And get the fuck off my lawn too, you worthless little bastards!
She’s not freaking out. She’s grumping because it seems that common courtesy is becoming less common and nobody seems to give a shit.
I for one agree with the OP, at least with regards to “thank yous”. While I don’t think that “no problem” is a problem, I’d certainly expect a “thank you” at the end of a transaction, just as the cashier would be right to expect one from me.
It is not, as Diogenes suggested, an emotional need, it’s just the minimum level of respect and politeness I should expect in a civilised society. It costs NOTHING to say “please”, “thank you” and “you’re welcome”, and it makes interacting with other human beings that bit more easy and pleasant. If you can’t understand that or simply don’t care about it, then I suggest that your dealings with other people are all the poorer for it.
Life is never too short, however, to dispense with any and all civilities. I don’t really mind whether I get a “Thank You” or a “No Problem”, but I prefer either to nothing at all…
As I mentioned earlier, I would argue that “no problem” (or “no worries” or “no sweat”) implies that there would be some circumstance where there would be a problem. “You’re welcome” (or “Have a nice day”), by contrast, has no such implications. One is conditional appreciation, the other is unconditional. While I understand that lack of respect or interest are not intended by service personnel, the interpretation is still there for those who appreciate subtle and nuanced conversation. Etiquette is more than knowing which fork to use; it is the art of making another comfortable through mutually accepted social conventions.
Again, I would argue that higher paid service personnel would not use this phrase. I am curious as to implications made earlier which bears this theory out - that more courtesy equals higher prices. For the life of me, I can’t understand why this should be. I have worked minimum wage jobs in hotels, restaurants and retail stores (not on commission), and I now work for a consulting engineering firm. I have never treated any customer with anything less than complete respect. If I am unhappy with my position, I move on; otherwise, I am part of the company and their customer is my customer.
Plynck, I think I get what you’re saying. But I don’t think the two-second interactions we have with people at the check-out counter are places to really delve into nuance. It’s an exchange of social pleasantries, nothing more, nothing less. I prefer to direct my ire towards those who express that doing one’s job is an excuse to act an ass (ignore customers, respond rudely, etc.). The “no problem” gang, I imagine, are using a colloquialism that is generally accepted in less formal circles as “you’re welcome.”
This reminds me of the Seinfeld when Kramer goes to the bank, sees a sign that says “If we don’t greet you with a hello, we’ll give you $50.” He goes to a teller, who greets him with a “Hey.” After meeting with the manager (Stephen Root), who calls over the teller staff (and they all respond with variations of “hello”), he settles for $25 and a toaster. (Though in fairness, I do think “Hey” is a bit off, even if it’s accompanied with a smile. But I wouldn’t be arsed to do anything about it.)
When I was a kid, I used to hear people ask “Can I trouble you for…” or ask a question, then add, “if it’s not too much trouble.” Maybe that’s where the “no problem” convention comes from.
Speaking of life being too damn short - at my local grocery store, I can tell that the clerks have been schooled in thanking every customer (unnecessary In My Humble Opinion) but also are taught that they must mention the person’s name in the phrase. I guess they get my name when I swipe in my “membership” card to get the valuable cents off my purchase of seven-grain bread. I can tell it’s coming, though, because they look at the receipt and furrow their brow each time in a vain attempt to guess how I would pronounce my last name. If I were named Johann Gambolputty de von Ausfern- schplenden- schlitter- crasscrenbon- fried- digger- dingle- dangle- dongle- dungle- burstein- von- knacker- thrasher- apple- banger- horowitz- ticolensic- grander- knotty- spelltinkle- grandlich- grumblemeyer- spelterwasser- kurstlich- himbleeisen- bahnwagen- gutenabend- bitte- ein- nürnburger- bratwustle- gerspurten- mitz- weimache- luber- hundsfut- gumberaber- shönedanker- kalbsfleisch- mittler- aucher von Hautkopft of Ulm their sales would plummet.
Concerning the topic at hand - I do not feel that sales clerks owe me a thank you for patronizing their store. It could just as well be argued that I should be thanking the for having a sale on my favourite brand of pasta, or for locating the store close to my house. If they want to say “Thank you” that’s fine but not a necessity.
Honestly, :rolleyes: Going all semantic on someone over something so petty and insignificant makes one, well, both, don’t you think?
Apparently some people think they have been designated the Grand Poobah Arbiters of Proper Speech such that they feel it’s justified to pick these infinitesimal nits.
Boggles the mind.
In school, I always knew when the teacher came upon my name for the first roll call. I was in a VERY WASP neighborhood/school, and my first name (which is not Lynn) is spelled rather unusually. The teacher would crinkle her brows, purse her lips, and try to spit out my name. I got used to saying “(Firstname) Bodoni, here.”
I really don’t appreciate tellers and clerks greeting me by name, unless I actually know them. I don’t like having my name announced (and probably mispronounced) for all to hear. It does not give me a warm fuzzy feeling inside, no matter what the folks in Management think. I would appreciate a smile and “Please” and “Thank you” and “You’re welcome” when appropriate.
Ah, but then we must ask: how nice a day? Who shall measure this “niceness,” and by what objective standard? Is it a simple wish that I have a “nice day,” or is there some implied guarantee? By “day,” do we mean an entire 24-hour period, or simply the remaining hours of daylight? If the latter, should I assume that after dark, the wish (or guarantee) expires? And what if I should happen to cross a time zone? Isn’t it a presumptuous insinuation that my day so far has not been “nice?” Can I even be sure that today is the day being referred to?
These are very important questions, Plynck, and not to be taken for granted. You have a lot of serious analysis to do before we can just go around declaring phrases acceptable, willy-nilly. Please keep us posted on your progress!
Irregardless, their is a way to present one’self and and a way not to.
Grand Poohbah? Nitpicking moron? I am looking at my previous posts, trying to ascertain what I said that could have raised the discourse to this level of vituperation.
There is a difference between one’s relationships with friends, and with one’s clients or customers, and it is foolish to imply that there is not. Many business graduate schools will offer a course in etiquette so that their students are comfortable with this distinction. The principle is that one’s friends will accept (or at least tolerate) familiarities, whereas one’s clients may not. This applies to all verbal communications, whether spoken or written. For example, look at my first sentence in this post; I’m sure that it raised a red flag the moment you read it. You might tolerate that spelling and grammar in an email or IM from a friend, but you would be insulted to receive that from a business contact. Why should it be any different in your contact with strangers at any level of business?
I have frequent contact with clients, some of them younger than I am, and I take my cue from them whether to loosen the rules of business etiquette. The rules usually change after we have had repeated contact and have established a business relationship, but never on the first meeting. And most cash register transactions are one-time only meetings.
Even IF we accept that “no problem” means, “Oh, I’m just doing my job”-how is that an insult? It’s basically saying, “Please, don’t feel like you’re a burden, or putting me out-we’re happy to serve you.” I’ve had so many people ask me for extremely simple things at work and such, and they always seem to think they’re being a huge burden. I like to reassure them, “Hey, no, it’s NOT a problem!”
You might be entitled to more from a $25/hr or $50/hr or $600/hr white-collar worker but it is a bit much to expect that someone with a PhD and all the social niceties would settle for minimum-wage indentured servitude
And, frankly, that’s the problem I see. People seem to be expecting these uppity serfs to be properly deferential to their betters. :rolleyes:
BTW, are you planning on answering Vinyl Turnip’s questions? Because, frankly, I found your response to VT terribly rude and not at all in keeping with your holier-than-thou position regarding the Proper Behaviour of One’s Inferiors.
Appreciating subtle and nuanced conversation is one thing. Deliberately misinterpreting an idiomatic phrase in order to find offense is something altogether different. If you know what someone intends to convey through a particular speech pattern but you persist in pretending that they mean something offensive through it, you are not engaging in subtlety or nuance: you are engaging in dishonesty.
That’s part of etiquette. The other vital part of etiquette is not assuming the worst about other people and tolerating harmless differences. Failing to do so is the height of rudeness, as any etiquette maven will tell you.
WHat you’ll find is that people in different social classes have different registers, and people serving different social classes have different registers. A butler will speak differently from a McDonald’s cashier; this is not a surprise, but it also does not mean that a butler is automatically more polite than the cashier. On the contrary, it’s perfectly easy to be a supercilious git while using only the most formal of phrases.
