I am truly stunned at the lack of manners here, and in my own family. MY OWN SON has tossed the thank-you note lesson out the window, for certain people he doesn’t like who send him token Christmas gifts. I could just beat him!
On the other hand, I found a little $1.00 ring at a drug store and taped it to a piece of paper with a note for my 9-year old neice. She sent me a thank you note and asked if I would PLEASE write to her again! She just loved getting a note from me! I think it’s great. It just made me smile…
wireless, I picked up a booklet at the friends-of-the-library sale called Amusements for the Sick. It’s full of little tips about how to make time pass more pleasantly for someone who is ill–not at all what the modern mind would expect from the title. I think I’ve gleaned all the amusement I can from it, so if it’s the sort of thing you’d be interested in, drop me a line (podkayne_fries@hotmail.com) and I’d be delighted to mail it too you. (I expect a thank-you note in return, of course. )
As far as the New World Order goes, I take as my guide to etiquette, not chapter and verse from Miss Manners (though she often has very useful advice) but whether I am being gracious and helpful. In my book, to receive a gift and not say thank you is not gracious. To expect someone to give a gift, but make them jump through hoops if they’d like a suggestion as to what we need or desire is not helpful. So I am Pro thank you notes and Pro wedding registries–and I’m Pro putting registry information where people can access it easily.
It would probably be inconvenient, and maybe a bit awkward for my friends to have to call my mother to find out where we were registered, so I put the information on a web page, and included a slip of paper with “For more information:” with the URL and mom’s number in our wedding invitations. Perusing my invitation list, I noted that those who were unlikely to have internet access were the older family members, who wouldn’t think twice about phoning Mom. Voila;
I don’t see a registry as saying “buy me this!” I see it as saying, “If you’re at a loss as to what to get us, here are a few things that you’ll know we would be happy with.” I was delighted with many of the gifts we got that weren’t on our registry . . . and I feel no compunction to get someone a gift from their registry when that information is provided if I have something else in mind, and I am grateful to have the information when I would rather get a practical gift for the couple.
And, I have a confession to make; I have, in the past, been remiss about RSVPing. I did not understand the gravity of a formal invitation, and I figgered (like a chump) that the default was “not coming” I only had to reply if’n I was coming. hangs head in shame I was young and foolish, and I hope that those whom I have slighted have forgiven me.
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I don’t see a registry as saying “buy me this!” I see it as saying, “If you’re at a loss as to what to get us, here are a few things that you’ll know we would be happy with.”
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That’s exactly what it says. And the problem with that for the Etiquette Fascists (of which I confess I usually am one) is that the phrase “If you’re at a loss as to what to get us . . .” assumes and implies that “you” are going to get “us” something.
Jodi, the bride does not have to imply that you are going to bring a gift.
Miss Manners et al. have already said it for her.
The etiquette fascists who say that the bride and groom must not give any indication what gifts they might enjoy are the same ones who say it would be the height of cheek to attend a wedding without giving the bride and groom a present. It’s exactly that sort of wink-wink, nudge-nudge coyness that drives me batty about certain rules of etiquette. Everybody knows you’re supposed to bring a gift. Why is it so irredemably tacky to subtly offer a few suggestions as to what sorts of gifts the receivers might enjoy?
Now, personally, I would not been troubled for a moment if any of our guests had not brought a gift. They were invited because we loved them, and hoped that they could join us for or celebration. Similarly, I do not give wedding gifts because etiquette dictates; I do it because I want to give them some token of my good wishes for their life together. Saints forfend that I should give them a gift that they had the gall to suggest.
So many Indians on this thread! I too, am Indian (half, anyway). What’s more, I’m Kannada, and we’re definitely among the less-polite folks on the subcontinent. Maybe that explains my view of the situation.
Sure, but the rule that if a guest cares enough to attend your wedding, they should care enough bring a gift, does not invalidate the rule that the B&G are not supposed to care if the guests actually do bring a gift not – because it’s the pleasure of their guests’ company they really want. (Yeah, sure.)
This is not to say that if the B&G do suggest gifts, by registering or by dropping hints like size 10 shoes, the guests should ignore them and buy them crap the guests know or think they (B&G) don’t want or need. But since gifts are supposed to be freely given, it isn’t strictly correct to assume you’re getting any.
I have no problem with registries, actually, I think they’re great. But IMO the proper bride admits to being registered, and where, only after being asked directly what she and the groomster would like for a gift.
I know this will probably get me flamed, but we didn’t write thank you notes for our wedding either.
We had 15 guests. The wedding was very much along the lines of “we’re finally going to do this, on this date, at this place, if you’d like to come and watch, you’re welcome”. Very informal. Not all people gave gifts (which was never an issue). We thanked everybody for coming and sharing the day several times. Both of us thanked every person individually for their presence. We then had the 15 guests eat at a beachfront restaurant with everything on the house. Afterwards, our neighbours threw us a BBQ (all class our neighbours are :)) to which all family members were welcome. They all came. The BBQ was the neighbours gifts to us. We opened all the gifts at the BBQ, and had lots of fun, in a very relaxed and informal atmosphere. Since everyone came to the BBQ for at least a few hours, we made sure we thanked each person for their gifts and were very gracious about it.
We did not follow up with thank you notes. I know some people will say that no circumstances excuse that, but from our point of view (and from feedback from other guests) our wedding just didn’t have the sort of ‘feel’ that you’d expect a thank you note from. I don’t write a thank you note to my parents when they give me a Christmas or birthday present, just as they don’t write to me when I give gifts to them, and our wedding was very much a close family affair only. There was no way our weding had the formality to it that warranted a thank you note, though I can see many instances where thank you notes are warranted.
:shrug: No flames, but I ewould have sent notes anyway.
And actually, I do send notes to my parents for Xmas and Birthday prezzies.
Jodi, I agree completely. In fact, I take it a step forward and suggest that the bride or groom should under no circumstances mention where they are registered. IMHO that’s the job of the ,aid/matron of honor and/or the couples’ parents.
Miss Manners does no such thing. I defy you to read any of her books and come up with any such suggestion. She states explicitly to the contrary several times.
Her take on registries is that they are marginally acceptable, because the bride and groom are communicating their preferences to a neutral business establishment, who then communicate the same on request to other parties.
The only other dispensation she gives for directing gifts (or lack of gifts, or things in lieu of gifts) is in the case of funerals - she authorizes the family to ask not to receive too many flowers, which can be oppressive.
…and people think we’re joking when we say we want to go to Vegas.
We’re getting married in a month, so I am taking all these things to heart which have been posted, and am actually only posting here to add just one thing in the line of the OP, regarding thank you notes: www.willowtreelane.com offers an assortment of pre-printed thank you notes. They may have been the sort to which a previous poster (forgive my laziness for not paging back to find the name, my browser loads so slowly) refers. I didn’t see them on the site itself, but they sent me a catalog, and I was terribly amused. I may save them for a reference, but I think you’d have to have a death wish to order such fill in a blank bastardisations of so-called “etiquette.”
Oh no, I’m hearing the Music Man’s “Pick a Little/Talk a little/pick, pick, pick, talk a lot, talk a little…” Bedtime for this chickie, methinks.
Quoth Miss Manners, “Wedding presents are customary from people who presumably care enough about the couple to attend their wedding.” I do not think that her tone leaves any question that a wedding gift is not optional for the well-mannered.
If you can quote one of the instances where she states that it is perfectly acceptable to attend a wedding without sending a gift (thank you, amarinth, you are correct of course), I should be delighted to see it.
And, once again, this is Miss Manner’s rule, not mine. I did not expect a wedding gift from each of my guests, nor do I think that a gift registry implies that a gift is required–any more than reserving a block of rooms for out-of-town guests implies that they must stay at the hotel of the bride and groom’s choice. It is a convenience offered to the guests, and I see no reason not to make the information easily available.
I agree with that, but it seems like so few other people do! How many times have you heard someone complain about the registry of a wedding to which they were invited: “They registered at Target, fergodsake; how tacky!” or “They registered at Tiffany, can you believe it, and even the cheapest item cost a dick and a ball!” It’s like people are saying that the registry should be chosen for the convenience and taste level of the guests, not the B&G. No one seems to think of the second half of your assertion: the part about not being obligated to buy from the registry if you’d rather not.
**Then you also get the Brides who seem to view the registry as a way to screw her guests who choose to buy something off the registry.
I used to work in a store that had a bridal registry (china, crystal, sterling flatware, and gifty stuff). It was quite common for brides to come in and register, and demand that we put a note on their registry that they DID NOT want any single pieces, only full place settings.
People would come in with the bride’s name and ask to see her registry, and we’d say, “Yes, here it is, Jane BrideSnot has chosen Pretentious Pansies for her china pattern, and wants full place settings only, which will run $250 for one place setting. Would you like it sent or will you take it with you?”
And then they’d faint.
Part of the idea of registering is so guests can say, “Okay, I’ll get a plate for them. It costs $40.”
Then someone else can say, “Okay, they’ve got a plate, I’ll get a $35 soup bowl for them.”
Then someone else gets them a cup and saucer. And so on and so on till you’ve got 8 place settings of your china and silver.
Or you get them a fork or a knife or a sugar spoon.
That sterling flatware is expensive.
:rolleyes:
I always think it’s better to err on the side of a thank you note than not. Not sending thank you notes for wedding presents? I’m appalled!!
My friend’s mother treated me to dinner when she was in town last week and I sent her a thank you note. Was I supposed to? I dunno, but it’s better to be safe than look like an ungrateful goon.
If I DON’T receive a thank you note for a gift I’ve sent, I ask the bride and groom if they even received the gift! Things get lost in the mail, you know, and I don’t trust the gift companies 100%. Hilariously, they always seem to send me a thank you note shortly afterwards.
Having turned to Miss Manner’s Guide to Excruciatingly Correct Behavior for support, I find that - well, I’m part right. She says that:
However:
(Emphasis mine.) Furthermore:
(Martin, J., op.cit., 366-8.)
So, it’s “customary” (decent, well looked-upon) to bring presents if you attend the reception, but this doesn’t apply to just attending the ceremony, and furthermore it’s certainly not obligatory and must never be implied to be so.
A la Matt_MCL’s practice, I took the gift list, stamps and writing paper on the flight from east coast to a Mexico Club Med for our honeymoon. We spent a LONG time in the Dallas airport, and I was doing thank-you letters in the bar.
The sweet little couple at the next table chatted up DH as to what I was doing and sent us over beer and some nachos.
Didn’t do any at the resort, but had them all finished (120 guests) by the time we were “at home”.
It felt good to get it over with, but it is also easier to be profuse with praise when you are still on the event high.
matt_mcl, I read the quote, “(I)f you do not attend a wedding to which you have been invited, or merely receive an announcement, or attend only the ceremony and not the reception, you are not considered involved to the extent of, say, a silver bud vase.” to mean that an expensive present (a silver vase, for example) is not expected (or hinted at or vaguely suggested by fashion and custom or ever so subtly indicated by non-binding rules of basic human interaction) , but note that Miss Manners does not say, “If you don’t go to the recpetion, you’re off the hook.” I think she is implying that some humble token would still be appropriate.
Miss Manners is the very definition of the class act. It would be extremely unclassy of a bride to say, “I expect a gift,” and it would be unclassy of Miss Manners to say it for her. So, the epitome of grace, she dances around the issue.
I’m just a plain-spoken person, lacking in Miss Manners’ gifts for subtlty and understatement, so I’ll just blurt out that it is a well-understood fact that wedding guests are supposed give a gift to the bride and groom.
Yes, of course you’re not obligated to bring a gift. I think it would be a minor personal failing for the bride and groom to be disappointed, even if they got not a single gift. It would be the height of rudeness to make anyone feel uncomfortable if they do not provide a gift, and it would be absolutely barbaric to harass a guest if their gift was not one that was registered for. However, I think it’s ridiculous for the bride and groom to play some silly mincing game of pretending that they don’t expect any gifts–they do expect gifts, becaue everybody freaking gives a wedding gift.
MHO. I am not Miss Manners–and I certainly have no pretentions toward being a class act. I’m just a former bride, and sometime wedding guest.
I think I’ve gleaned all the amusement I can from it, so if it’s the sort of thing you’d be interested in, drop me a line (
)
Maybe that explains my view of the situation.