I have. It actually traces back to 19th-Century Germany, and the silly idea of a Jewish “threat” to the local culture. I just checked on Wikipedia, and bizarrely, it’s not as tied to neo-paganism & the rejection of Christianity as I was remembering, because apparently German racism didn’t have to make any sense at all.
Taken out of that context, what is anti-Semitism, even?
I really wish you would use a word that means what you mean.
Why is anybody still feeding this troll? He won’t be happy until we admit that everybody who isn’t Jewish is anti-semitic (or has he done that?) and then he’ll start on the people who aren’t his brand of Jewish, like Jews who are not Republicans.
And really, Terr, an internet poll with 54 self-selected respondents? Can you get any more pathetic? Don’t bother answering, because you’ll just troll it up some more. Go back under your bridge. I hear the Three Billy Goats Gruff coming, and it’s dinner time
Hatred of Jews. That’s the meaning of the word, in English. That’s the language we’re using, right?
And how is it determined that your mother (or grandmother on your mother side) was Jewish? Because she felt so or was culturally Jewish, or ethnically Jewish? Who is going to provide the evidence that she was? Will at any point religion be involved, in your opinion? Or is it [del]turtles[/del] Jews all the way down?
And how comes that the requirement isn’t that both your parents were Jewish, or either of your parents (your father, for instance)? Could it possibly have something to do with religious rules?
The cite is from Israel’s embassy.
Because it’s 100% certainty that you are your mother’s son. Your father’s… who knows.
nm
He quite obviously meant people who think they’re the “real” French (noticed the quote marks around “real”?) and is being critical of them. They’re “real” French because they’ve the proper religion (or at least don’t have the improper religion) and the proper skin colour. Including people who have no issue with the fact they’re descendant of Poles, Italians or Spaniards themselves, hence wouldn’t be considered “ethnically French” by your standards, presumably.
And this view has nothing to do with the legal status (which we were talking about) and everything to do with xenophobia and racism.
Once again, I think you’re disingenuous. I don’t believe you didn’t figure out by yourself what I wrote. You’re obviously trying to justify what is criticized wrt Israel by making up an equivalence between a legal status here and the views of a racist there. You can’t not realize that a law differenciating between two categories of individuals is the same as the existence of a racist person differenciating between two categories of individuals. You can’t state honestly that being considered Jew in Israel has nothing to do with religion, especially given the influence the most conservative religious leaders have wrt lawmaking there.
Yes, sure, that’s why they picked this rule. The fact that it happens to be also the Jewish religious rule is completely random. :rolleyes:
That’s also the reason why almost all countries grant citizenship solely on the basis of who your mother was, presumably. It’s just being practical. :rolleyes:
You keep being disingenuous. Well, I hope so. The alternative is that you’re an idiot.
Precisely, that’s the issue. We’re not talking about what people believe they are or believe other people are, but about legal status.
Your relatives might think of themselves as French, but they aren’t, legally. And in fact I wouldn’t consider them French either unless they’re French citizens or culturally French.
Frankly, I understand legally French or culturally French, but I’ve no clue what “ethnically French” is even supposed to mean.
No, it is the Jewish religious rule because it’s 100% certainty that you are your mother’s son.
You do realize that the Israeli Law of Return doesn’t have that criteria for who is allowed to immigrate, right?
Which of these countries make legal distinctions between their citizens based on religious or ethnic origin, besides Israel? Greece does, and is rightfully often criticized for it, contrarily to what you seem to believe. Turkey has been criticized a lot for the opposite reason : considering that there no such thing as a Kurd.
Can you cite an Israeli law that negatively discriminates against Arab citizens - you know, that “legal distinction”?
That’s pretty clear. The question is why Israel decided to follow the religious rule, when other democracies don’t.
I realize from the corrections since posted that indeed the right of return is open to more people than I thought, but is still ultimately based on religion. If your father was Jewish, how do you establish that he was, again? And how comes your sister, presumably equally “ethnically Jewish” can’t if she converted to Islam? Nothing to do with religion, hmmm? And how comes I can emigrate to Israel despite not being “ethnically” Jew if I convert (as long as I pick the “correct” Jewish denomination)? Still nothing to do with religion?
Nope. See, according to Judaism, any Jew that converts to Islam is still a Jew. But the Law of Return wouldn’t allow him/her in. And, according to Judaism, someone only whose paternal grandfather is Jewish isn’t a Jew. And the Law of Return still allows him/her in. Kinda destroys your idea that it is based on religion, doesn’t it?
And in any case, have you managed yet to find an Israeli law that negatively discriminates against non-Jewish citizens of Israel?
Hmmm…I think I read of some example somewhere…let’s me think about it…Oh, yes, it was in this very thread, and in fact the reason why we started this exchange. This Arab Israeli thing, you remember? :rolleyes:
Can you cite the law? I will repeat the question: find an Israeli law that negatively discriminates against non-Jewish citizens of Israel.
My mother is French, legally, and a French Jew ethnically. My father was legally Italian, with Greek and Italian ethnicity.
I am legally US/Italian, with French/Jewish/Greek/Italian ethnicity. I could have applied for French citizenship, but it was easier at the time to apply in Italy. I could apply for Israeli citizenship as well, and would be considered ethnically Jewish.
I think the confusion here is language. Ethnicity is really a social construct, probably what you call “culturally”.
The debate wasn’t about it negatively discriminating. You’re moving the goal posts. It was about simply discriminating. There shouldn’t be such a distinction in a democratic system. Saying " this guy is a category A citizen" and this other guy is a category B citizen is wrong, and obviously going to lead to discrimination in practice. It’s no different from the “separate but equal” concept.
There is a legal distinction between blacks and whites in the United States, in several laws. Is US a “democratic system”? And so that we can discuss it specifically, which Israeli law are you referring to?