Wow, zero to persecuted in three posts!
Look, I’m not saying your wrong about there being anti-Semitism on the left. (As far as I can tell, neither is anyone else in this thread.) I’m just saying, “Where there’s smoke, there’s fire,” is a terrible argument, which should be more readily apparent in a thread that’s specifically about the treatment of a historically libeled and persecuted people.
Again, sorry for quoting you and actually addressing everyone else. Been a long day. I’ve been actually reading the posts on page 2 and mentally responding to those.
Y’know, I keep hearing about this epidemic of leftist hatred for Jews, but could somebody provide some actual fucking citations for it that show how widespread it is in the US? And I don’t mean some meanies on Facebook; anecdotal evidence being worthless. Actual information, like proper Ignorance Fighters expect from every other topic. To hear some of you it is as widespread as it was in Nazi Germany, but I haven’t seen any real-life examples outside of outlier oddballs and I want to know what I’m missing.
Note that I’m not talking about Europeans. I’ve never had much respect for a lot of the noisy gadflies of the European Left, since way back in 1968. And I’m lumping Brits in with Europeans, in case somebody wanted to weasel GB into being a separate entity. It’s not.
And for the record I’m getting annoyed. I am a US lefty of good standing, without an anti-semitic bone in my body, many of my friends are the same, and I’m tired of good people being libeled in this thread.
Should we be scared?
dropzone giving you the benefit of a doubt that you’re not pretending to have never encountered what we speak of - just google “left/left-wing/leftist anti-semitism” and you can read articles, research, debates, PDF files to your heart’s content.
It’s the Internet, dude. You could google ANYTHING and get results like that.
That does not serve as evidence here.
Why start now? 
It’s not my job to prove your point. You should know that by now.
And no, I don’t pretend or lie here. I leave that for real life. Put up or shut up, and provide information showing that mainstream US lefties, multiple ones who have some influence on general thought, not weird college professors nobody has heard of off their own campuses, are anti-semitic.
I don’t believe you are lying nor do I believe your friends are. Like I said, not all Lefties are anti-Semitic or anti-Zionist. It is just a significant undertone in several different schools of Leftist thought. It is even more common in Europe than it is in the U.S. but still has managed to carry over across the Atlantic. The problem with providing cites is that it is the overwhelming majority of them and a little like someone asking you to prove that the moon landings really happened. If I started listing them, it would require more reading than an a college course and you may still dismiss them as a collection of anecdotes. If we did compile them, it is going to look like the infamous lion versus tiger thread that is just an insane and incoherent number of links out of context. It can certainly be done but it isn’t worth it if you aren’t willing to do even basic research that has already been compiled.
I already gave you the basic reason for it. Many Leftists love the underdog of the day no matter what the greater context is. The main sin that Jews brought on themselves in the Leftist mindset is that they became too successful too fast. Now, another, poorer, group wants part of the land that they were given after the atrocities of WWII but that doesn’t matter now. All that matters is that some poor Muslims want it too but the rich and successful Jews won’t voluntarily relinquish territory to poorer people that haven’t done as well despite controlling the rest of the region. That success story is why the Right generally views Jewish culture extremely favorably and the Left does not. They made the mistake of overcoming extreme obstacles to succeed in ways that few other groups have.
If you insist on cites, they are bountiful but you may not have access to modern search engines like Google to be able to see them. I can give you a back door link to get you started (for free). Let me know if you want to refine your searches because I have a special account that gives me access to just about everything.
Huh, I guess I’m the only one who when they see anti-semitic conspiracy theories about ZOG or Jewish communism or “cultural Marxism” or Jewish control of Hollywood, academia, and Wall Street or how they’re destroying the West with immigration and feminism it’s pretty reliably a right wing source. The righter, the more white nationalist, the more they hate Jews. You got right boards like /pol/ and Stormfront and an entire rightie blogosphere obsessed with rooting out Jewish CEOs, bankers, and media members. They’re definitely not full of progressive kale eating pussies. Are there any left wing equivalents? If there are, I’ve missed them. Not to mention decades of fascist scapegoating of Jews. I don’t think the guy who wrote The Turner Diaries was a lib, either.
Europe definitely hates the Jews though. Hundreds of years of pogroms, both Germany and Russia wanted them dead, and now they’re bringing in large amounts of Muslim immigrants to do the rest of the fighting for them. How’s that for a CT? I don’t think it has a clever name yet, though.
Ah the “but Stormfront!” argument.
How about “but Occupy!” one? Or the “but AdBusters!” one?
To be sure, there are Right-wing antisemitics too but they tend to be at the extreme fringe. The people in those groups don’t generally target Jews specifically. They hate everyone and are bat-shit insane with weird ideas that are all over the place including many conspiracy theorists. I have even met some that claimed they had some long-hidden Jewish lineage because they thought it made them secretly better than everyone else. In short, don’t build your political stereotypes based on an internet militia member or any members of a wacky fringe group. The conversations and logic (or lack thereof) can kidnap you from reality quickly.
I am closer to a moderate libertarian than anything else but the vast majority of Right-wingers are fierce defenders of Israel and the Jewish people. It is often for some weird reasons but it is genuine. They would be more than happy to authorize a military strike on anyone that so much as threatens Israel and they love having successful Jews around in their communities. However, as far as I can tell, the anti-Zionist/anti-Semitic Leftists are articulate and sincere in their disdain for Israel in particular with some spillover for Jews as a whole. You can see that through actual demonstrations and detailed writings.
Perhaps its difficult to prove the attitude of an entire group. We can all agree people understand when they’re collectively dispised so how about someone here proving Jewish Americans vote Republican in inordinate numbers.
It would at least be a start to providing actual evidence.
No, we can’t all agree with that at all because it based on a fundamentally false premise.
Democrat <> Leftist.
True Leftists are only a small subset of the Democratic Party and some are members of other parties or no political party at all.
You are asking us to make a false comparison and it doesn’t look good if you don’t truly understand the difference.
That’s why I want to leave the Yurpeens put of it. They crazy. I’ve long thought that their other objection (other than the invading and shit) to Hitler was that he was not their own French, British, Polish, Russian, etc, Jew killer, but I would be painting entire groups with the black paint of my imaginings. I know better than to do that, as do you.
Then provide SOME. Otherwise you are talking shit. And kindly follow my requirements that the people you cite have SOME power over MAINSTREAM lefty opinions. No CTers, no cranks. RESPECTED people.
“I believe that the WTC was torn down by kobolds. If you want proof, look it up yourself.” That sort of answer doesn’t fly around here for any other topic, and if you want to be intellectually honest you can’t use it for this one.
Cite? How many? Shayna’s apparent all of them?
Cite? Quit making up bad things about people like me. It is a hateful lie, like what the Protocols said about all Jews. Would you like me to Godwinize this thread from the other direction, too? Because shit like that, where you imagine a straw US leftist, is a step in that direction.
Do not patronize me. Just put up or shut up. I will repeat that it is not my job to do your research.
Yer dodging, son.
It sure sounds like you’re arguing that there are as many antisemites in the Occupy movement as at Stormfront. That’s not even a slightly tenable position.
In absolute terms? Probably yes. Since Stormfront is a tiny tiny fringe.
And how many people do you think are in Occupy? More than Stormfront types, which includes the neo-Nazis and KKK? I don’t know how to break this to ya, but Occupy ain’t exactly mainstream. They are niche nutters.