No, you may not store your son's gun in my apartment!

The BBQ Pit
21

I must confess that I’ve been educated by reading this thread. (rather unusual for a Pit thread, actually)

I’m not a gun owner, but I have had occasion to fire pistols and rifles owned by (and under the supervision of) my father, uncle, and roommate at various times over the past 15 years or so. Each time, the principles of gun safety were preached and practiced aggressively. I rather enjoyed the experiences, actually, and when I have some disposable income may get into target shooting myself. That’s really neither here nor there, though.

When I first read the OP, my first thought was “Who pissed in this guy’s Wheaties?” I found myself sympathizing with Candlemas’ future father-in-law’s evident shock that somebody would take such a hard-line stance.

I’m sure something similar has happened to most of us at one time or another: we ask somebody for a (seemingly minor and harmless) favor, and are shocked when the reply is a polite equivalent of “Hell, no!” Upon inquiring as to the reason for the refusal, we’re even more surprised to find that the reason involves not convenience or circumstance, but principle - this person is fundamentally opposed to what we’ve asked them to be complicit in.

Now, clearly, they’re well within their rights to refuse, for whatever reason. And, after confirming that they’re not joking around, I abide by their decision. Keeping such thoughts to myself, of course, I do walk away feeling that my values have just been judged and found wanting - which can sting.

Had my father-in-law asked me to keep a properly broken down, unloaded, and cased firearm in my apartment for a few hours, I would have happily complied, and thought nothing odd about it. So, after reading solely the OP of this thread, I concluded that Candlemas’ actions were justifiable (His house, his rules) but somewhat…assholish.

Having seen the replies from gun owners, though, I’ve reconsidered. I’ve found the flaw in the smug analysis I made to myself, and it was summed up quite perfectly by smoke: “A gun is NOT just another power tool.” I consider myself one who respects firearms, but I see that I haven’t thought about everything.

I guess what disturbs me most about my half-baked gun safety knowledge is that I saw nothing unusual (or unsafe) with FFIL’s request. It’s not like he was asking to leave a few bags of dope - there were no legal problems (that I’m aware of) with the request. (I am assuming that the weapon was unloaded and properly stowed. Were it ready to fire, my opinion would be dramatically different.)

There were, however, gun safety problems with the request, that I didn’t see. Clearly, I have more to learn before getting that .22 rifle for the range. Thanks, all.

22

Just a quick question to the OP’er.

You said this:

So, what if the rifle had been disasembled? e.g. the bolt removed from the gun?
Kyle

23

Ya know, Candlemas, I’m kinda like the poster above. On first read of your OP I was wondering what your irrational fear of firearms was. But hey, that’s you and it’s not for me to make a call on that. After all, firearms are simply a tool, but one with a seriously negative stigma attached to them because, well, for many reasons we wont get in to.

But then the gears started turning…

I’m now wondering about the situation you may be getting yourself into with the whole marriage thing.

My ex has a dad who had the attitude that * you’re marrying my daughter, I can now demand of you anything I want.* At first it wasn’t so bad, he didn’t ask anything out of line and I wanted to make a good impression. After time it got VERY old, I won’t go in to detail, but it became an issue between me and my ex. Not a good scene. (note the use of my word ‘ex’.)

So I would have to say you did the exact right thing. Saying no early may save you a world of grief, as you set some boundaries between him and you. Sure, he may have an attitude about you now, but it’s better than setting yourself up as a doormat. If your lovely has any issues about you and he relating this way, now would be a good time to discuss them.

I wish you and your fiancée the very best.

24

And, pray tell, how the fuck is he supposed to know the damn thing is unloaded? Oh, wait. I get it. He watches the dumbass carrying the weapon trip on something and then when he hears the trigger click and no bullet comes out of the fucking thing, that lets him know the damn thing is unloaded. Well, of course his pants may no longer be unloaded.

Now, I’m not saying that people who carry guns are stupid. Just those that think everyone else on the planet should assume those that carry the guns are not stupid. After all, there are some stupid mofos out there with weapons. For example: the stupid mofo who thinks it’s alright to store his weapon in the apartment of someone who doesn’t permit weapons in his apartment.

25

Short answer? It’s always loaded. Until you, with your own hands and eyes, prove otherwise. If, at anytime, the weapon leaves your hands, it’s loaded again.
Period.

Congratualtions, brad_d! You’ve just moved into a safer world, one where you examine your own assumptions. Damn few people ever achieve that, and you should feel pretty good about it. Congratulations to your friends and family too, for harping on safety. It’s life-long habit that lets you live a long life.

26

Evidently, I was being a bit too subtle. My two-fold point is that (a) of course the weapon is always loaded, and (b) the individual who asked if the damn thing was loaded must’ve had his head elsewhere during the safety discussion.

27

Just totally jumping in and repeating things that have already been said, I too would suggest thinking about if there is some way to reach a compromise. I’ve dealt with a lot of people who are not operating on the same wavelength as I am, and I’ve found it really greases the wheels of the relationship to make it known that I’m giving a little.

A rifle doesn’t have a slide to take off like a semi-auto pistol, but I personally would really think about calling the FIL back and telling him that you’re sorry you didn’t think about it then, but if the rifle had been disassembled, you’d let him put it in the closet.

Even not being married, I’ve already run afoul of getting on the wrong side of people whom you have to see routinely, and are in your “family”, but aren’t likely to be so forgiving.

YMMV.

28

Ah, right. Sorry about that.

29

A little bit of curiosity here, but if that gun had been stored in the house pending the return of the proper owner and it was stolen in a burglary, what position would that leave the householder in ?

Especially if they don’t have a licence or permit or whatever you are meant to have to own one.

30

Where I live it would be illegal for a person without their own permit to hold on to the gun for a few hours.

31

Your home, your rules. Does not matter what the issue is. He needs to respect that it is your home and your rules.

32

Where the hell do you live?

I’m glad I don’t live there.

As seems to be typical, the real problem seems to be missed because the evil word ‘gun’ was involved.

I see it more as his soon to be father in law (STBFIL?) was trying to put a responsibility on him he didn’t want, didn’t need, and wasn’t his, and he refused to accept it. All the better for him. That’s a good way to be in life.

But he said it was a GUN, so of course many other things need to be read in to it.

33

Ontario.

34

I don’t think anybody here has disagreed with this sentiment. Still, it’s certainly possible (and in fact quite easy) to be a genuine jerk while exercising one’s right to rule his roost with an iron fist.

Do I think Candlemas was being a jerk? Absolutely not, for reasons I gave in my previous post. He made the right call.

You’ve got to pick and choose what things you’re willing to go to the mat over, because doing so almost always costs you something down the road. In this case, Candlemas was willing to risk souring relations with his FFIL and FBIL over this. I hope that doesn’t happen, but it remains to be seen.

I think that it does matter what the issue is. Dictatorial power within one’s home, while always available, should be wielded judiciously, and with the negative consequences in mind. People will rightly think less of you if you abuse it.

35

Just a quick update for of all you that posted such great stuff here. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to keep up with this thread over the weekend because I went up north with my fiancee’s family. I spent almost the entire weekend with my future FIL and do you know what? We had a great time! The weather was just beautiful and there were a lot of “autumn chores” to do around the family cabin, so we were busy but it was still a total blast.
Man, it was strange at the beginning. It was the first time I had seen my future FIL since he dropped by my apartment, but he wasn’t acting weird at all. I kind of suspected he would be a little standoffish or at least acting a little funny around me but he wasn’t at all. I, on the other hand, was really uncomfortable around him for the first few hours and was acting like a real jack-ass. Most likely because I thought for sure he hated me now. Later on (after a few beers) we had the chance to talk and I mentioned that I didn’t mean to be such an asshole the other day. He actually apologized to me and said he felt bad about the whole thing too. He said that it just didn’t occur to him that I would react that way and that the whole ride over to my apartment he was really looking forward to spending some time with me. He said he felt especially bad because he thought he had inadvertently ruined any chance for us to get to know each other. I guess that’s why he wanted in the apartment so badly. After he said all that I started to feel like a real jack-ass. But I felt a lot better when he acknowledged a lot of what has been posted on this very thread. He admitted (no prompting from me) that it was bad form to try and leave a gun (in any degree of assembly) with someone that had barely even seen one before and that he knew harbored a dislike for them. He even kind of thanked me because he said that being around guns and people with guns all his life he sometimes gets a little cavalier with them and that it was a good wake-up call for him.
My future FIL is actually a really good guy. We went down to the local tavern one of the nights and he was telling all his buddies about what a good job I did pulling in the dock, glassing-in the porch and splitting wood for the stove. That made me feel good. He went out of his way to make me feel comfortable around these guys. That’s the sign of a good guy.
To answer some of the posters questions, I guess I do have some pretty strong feelings about guns. The truth is that as much as I like to hike, camp, canoe, etc. - I’m am still (shamefully) and (to some degree) always will be a city boy. While I’m keenly aware of what guns can do, I know nearly nothing about how they work, their safe handling, maintenance, etc and to be perfectly honest, I don’t really want to know anything about them. Maybe my feelings toward guns will soften as they become more familiar after living around them for a few years, but I tend to doubt it. My feeling is this: I don’t ever want any accidents of any kind involving guns to occur in my life. The solution as I see it is very simple - don’t ever have any guns around. There is very little I can do about what happens to me or my loved ones when we walk out our front door, but I can certainly be in control of what goes on in my own home.

36

Candlemas, I’m glad to hear that things played out as well as they did.

I have a thought for you- your fear of guns, admittedly, comes from a lack of knowledge and exposure of/to them. Maybe it would be a good bonding experience for you and FIL to go to a shooting range together, where he can demostrate gun safety to you. You can get a feel for shooting a weapon, and put some of your fears to rest.

I’m NOT suggesting that you need to revisit your “no guns in the house” policy by any stretch of the imagination- but what I’m suggesting is facing the unknown a little.

Also, considering that you’re marrying in to a gun-owning family, you never know when the knowledge might come in handy, but at the very least it might help you feel more comfortable around FIL’s home. :slight_smile:

Congrats and good luck with your marriage!

-j

37

I’m not a gun person either, but I’d like to second smoke’s suggestion - especially if you and the future Mrs. C. are planning on kids. You aren’t going to be able to keep them out of Grandpa’s house, and knowing something about guns (as well as making sure all the in-laws understand basic kid saftey concepts like unloaded, locked up, ammo locked up someplace else) and doing so now is better than doing so when the emotions about YOUR PRECIOUS CHILD are flying…

If you aren’t all on the same page about gun safety around kids, you can either get their or talk with your fiancee about how you are going to handle it.

(I hate guns, but have shot them several times, albeit not in recent memory (like the past 15 years). Shooting them is actually kind of fun - which is part of why I hate them.)

38

Congratulations, Candlemas on your excellent taste in in-laws. You sound like you’ve got an all-around victory on your hands.

Let me pile on with what smoke and Dangerosa said. Your future children are going to spend time with grandpa, and they will at least see, if not handle, firearms. Better that you gain a thourough and complete understanding of the basics of firearms safety and handling. You don’t actually have to fire one if you don’t wish, but you need at the very minimum learn how to pick one up and safely check to see if the action is clear, and also how not to handle it. That way, you can be d*mn sure that at least one person is telling the kids what to look out for, and what not to do if they stumble across Grandpa’s weapons. Grandpa will likely do the same, but never leave to the discretion of another what is your responsibilty. The kids that hurt each other with firearms almost all had never learned safe handling. Knowing firearms safety is low-cost, high-value insurance. Passing it on to your children is one small step you can take towards ensuring that they bury you, instead of the other way 'round.

I know, sounds pretty dramatic, doesn’t it? It’s the approach my dad took with me, and it’s the one I’m taking with my daughter.