So USA dopers, if this were the late 1920s or early 1930s, as Hitler was amassing support, you wouldn’t have tried to convince Germans that he would be a bad choice?
I’m not trying to compare Republicans or McCain to Hitler…I choose him because I’m picking an election that obviously had a huge impact on other countries, and the citizens of those countries obviously saw how it could affect them. They had an interest in the outcome but were not allowed to vote.
I think there is a perceived parallel to Hitler in that in other parts of the world we are often seen as bullies with imperialistic intentions. Remember when they toppled Saddam’s statue and someone put a US flag over its head?! Not the best PR day for the stars and stripes.
Anyway. People vote for a presidential candidate for a number of reasons. They might feel health care is a critical issue, or public education, or fiscal policy.
Among those reasons are the wars we’re in and foreign policy in general. From that perspective, what non-citizens have to say has whatever merit each voter chooses to assign to it.
I for one would rather entertain what they say than pontificate about what I think they believe. Your best friends won’t always tell you if you stink.
So he can have an opinion, he just can’t express it? Where exactly is the difference between giving an opinion on the election and attempting to sway voters?
Acceptable:
Barack Obama is a more fit candidate/ Barack Obama’s platforms will be best for the world/ Obama’s got the sexymeter up to 11
Unacceptable:
Americans, vote for Barack.
Diomedes, where in the above does Lobsang tell Americans who they should vote for? He is expressing his (quite possibly justifiable) concern that some Americans who support Obama may not bother to vote at all because they think that Obama is sure to win.
This is what I was told in a thread discussing Muslims and how much US Americans should hate them all based on the actions of a few on a different board (I had dared to take a contrary opinion):
to a chorus of agreement and hand-clapping. I’m not sure why non-US Americans having opinions is so offensive, but apparently it is.
First of all, John McCain is not George Bush. So judge him on his own merits, or flaws, and not George Bush’s.
Secondly, it’s not complacency that has allowed Republicans to win last two elections. It’s the gross incompetency of the Democratic leadership. In 2000, they mandated that Gore distance himself from Clinton because instead of running a campaign based on pumping up their candidate, they simply reacted to the talking heads and Republican congressmen who had mounted a very personal campaign against Bill Clinton. Instead of fighting offensively, they fought a defensive campaign. Trouble is the public, generally speaking, liked Clinton and I believe would have elected him again had he been allowed. But we weren’t allowed to ever see, or hear, Gore’s real opinions. He simply reacted to what the Democratic leadership thought the American public wanted to hear. Gore should have won in a landslide, but his campaign was so sorely mismanaged that a very weak candidate was able to beat the front runner.
In 2004, the Democrats believed that their candidate would win just because he wasn’t George Bush. Rule #1 is to never underestimate your opponent. Once again instead of going on the offensive, they kowtowed to the far right and refused to allow their candidate to differentiate himself from Bush on any matter of substance, such as gay marriage, abortion and the war in Iraq. They were afraid of alienating the far right, whose support they’d never have, instead of focusing on winning over their own supporters. At least half of all Americans would allow abortion and gay marriages, but would Kerry ever voice such an opinion? Never. And so he lost.
And now we have 2 Democratic candidates that have done more damage to each other’s credibility than the Republicans could ever have done. The Republican party, with its old boy network, simply told their candidates when they were done, finished, kaput. It’s really very simple. They tell their losing candidates that they either drop out of they won’t endorse or financially support him any more. That’s the way to run a party. The Democrats, on the other hand, allowed their two main candidates to attack each other and polarize their own freaking party. So now instead of having one united party, we know have the Obama lovers and the Hilary lovers. And it might backfire on them big time.
Honestly, the Democrats should write a manual on How to Lose a Sure Thing in 5 Easy Steps. They sure are experts on the matter.
Jesus, no freaking kidding! I’m not going to not vote because I think Obama has this election in the bag, I’m going to (probably) not vote because there’s no way in hell he can possibly win.
President McCain. barf, but that’s what will happen
Obama fails to make any inroads in the South, McCain wins. I’m pretty sure this is how it will go down, unfortunately. Economy gradually climbs out of the shitter, but American forces remain in Iraq.
Obama wins, economy gradually climbs out of the shitter, but American forces still stuck in Iraq at end of his term. His Veep, Bill Richardson, becomes Democratic nominee and wins Presidency (depending on whether the Republicans find to run against him). My crystal ball doesn’t go much further than that.
I feel bad for Obama because I feel like even if he wins he’s not going to get the same breaks as a white president. He’s like Ty Willingham at Notre Dame - all the white head coaches got five years to turn the program around, but Ty only got three. McCain would get two terms to turn the country around, but Obama would only get one.
Keeping troops in Iraq does not imply that he supports Bush’s policies. We destroyed their infrastructure, government and economy (well, what was left of the economy); we have a responsibility to help them fix it, even if you believe as most of us do that the invasion was a stupid idea.
It was a stupid idea to invade, we do have a responsibility to fix the mess or at least stay until it’s clear that the mess simply can’t be fixed…and McCain acknowledges that. His 100 years thing was taking out of context and has been used to beat him over the head with…and will probably continue to be used so for the duration of the campaign. I think that at least McCain has been honest about the realistic expectations for US troops in Iraq for the foreseeable future…while I think the two Dem candidates have been less than honest about it (at least based on their respective fans, especially the Obama-ites who seem to believe that once Obama is elected the troops will be on the way home).
I actually don’t know what McCain’s stance on this has been (I’m not very interested in McCain myself and have no desire to vote for him)…and I doubt you know either. Regardless, McCain is certainly not Bush (or The Fucking Beast either…thinking about it I think The Fucking Beast is taller too), regardless of whether Bush endorses him or not. McCain has enough problems of his own, enough issues from his stances that can be used to attack his positions without trying to equate him to Bush as well.
Besides…he’s really REALLY old! And he also has very little chance of actually winning against Obama in November…
Good points, all. Really! Some of the better arguments against our currently ham-fisted, “bomb-'em-all” approach. When you aquire the habit to pick up a hammer to solve a problem, all your problems tend to look like nails.
But most of those actions would rain a shitstorm down upon their collective heads, the likes of which they are ill-equipped to cope with.
Come to think of it though, considering our inept response to hurricane Katrina, we may not be as prepared as we would like to hope we are to some of your scenarios.
Seriously, the best course of action to disentangling ourselves from the whole ME mess would be to develop sufficient technology alternatives to the Oil Trap and tell them to go drink their weight in oil. Or go eat sand. And pray all you want; as many times a day as you like to.
Unfortunately, as you imply, money talks, and too many “western” multi-national economic juggernauts have too much vested interest in doing business with the ME, and have the money to buy entire governments, and get them involved in “short, victorious wars.”
I believe this to be true regardless of the party affiliation of the occupant of 1600 Penn. Ave.