Having run through a battery of tests administered by a competent and reputable clinical psychologist I have the pleasure of announcing my joining - at tender age of 42 - the Non-Verbal Learning Disability Club. Yay for me :smack:
He made this diagnosis based on a recurrent pattern in my scores (on about a half-dozen tests). I score consistently in the 99+ percentile on anything to do with language (ranges from 99th percentile to 99.9th percentile) but consistently miserably on anything non-verbal (ranging from the 9th percentile to the 30th.)
This pattern, combined with scores on personality assessments, fit in perfectly with the definition and expression of Non-Verbal Learning Disability.
Looking back this is pattern was also prevalent in my elementary, and junior/senior high school aptitude test results.
So, my questions to you fellow dopers:
where on the internet can I find legitimate (non-woo, non pulled-from-out-an-ass) information?
At 42 what, if anything, can I do to mitigate the effects of this on me?
Heretofore I have always thought it was due to a personal failing on my part (I’m smart, why can’t I figure out how to fold this into a cube? They all can. I must be dumb or lazy; and other thinking along those lines)
The one cite I read seemed good but I have no idea the reputation or reliability of the journal cited at the bottom of the page that the article is taken/paraphrased from.
With the usual caveats being understood (you are not a doctor, not my doctor, my doctor but with a suspended license etc.) what are your experiences, suggestions, tips and tricks.
I’m on small dose lorazepam for anxiety and 30mg citalopram for depression if that makes any difference.
Thanks in advance for any and all advice, suggestions etc.
I have nothing to offer except empathy. I’m top of the line in any language testing, and can whiz through mathematical ‘story’-type problems with the greatest of ease. But you give me a string of numbers and ask me to work the problem, I’m stumped. Even if you give me the string of numbers problem immediately after I’ve just solved the story problem and the mechanics are the identical, I can’t make the jump. Thank God for calculators.
I’m in a government program to return to school for upgrading and as a pre-screening thing they have you run through intelligence, aptitude and personality type tests in order to help determine what areas might be the best fit for you.
Yup, that’s me. So long as it’s words I’m golden, but as soon as we leave that realm I’m toast. Basic math (addition, subtraction, multiplication, division and simple fractions) I can do but that’s as far as it goes.
On the off chance you aren’t trying to pick a fight I’ll answer you as best I can.
I was brought up believing that unless you were retarded (that is the term that was used back then) failure to learn meant failure to apply yourself. People that couldn’t / wouldn’t learn were [willfully] dumb. Therefore dumb = laziness, lack of application etc. = personal failure. I know how hard I tried and I just couldn’t get it. Therefore I’m not trying hard enough and must be dumb.
Now it turns out that my lack of understanding owed - at least in part - to a fundamental inability of my brain to properly process and apply certain types of information or information delivered in certain ways.
That is yet another super-pleasant effect of this.
I do miss almost every cue I’m given and have spent a lifetime trying to pick them (the cues) up, failing, failing socially as a result and figuring it was lack of effort on my part or that I am inherently unlikable.
It basically pervades every aspect of your life that can’t be encompassed by “verbal.”
Please, keep in mind that I’ve known about this for just over 24 hours and haven’t completely come to terms with it or researched it as much as I’d like yet.
I’m 42, bipolar, diagnosed for almost 15 years, still unemployed. Good luck with your efforts to learn a new job skill, lots of luck to you I wish you well!!!
I’m not trying to pick a fight or call you dumb, but I am curious as to who is left to be “dumb,” if anyone. It used to be that when someone couldn’t manage to perform at grade-level in spite of making an effort, they were dismissed as dumb. Then learning disabilities started to be labelled, which was useful, as it helped with teaching strategies. Now when someone got a diagnosis of dyslexia, he was considered unable to read because of dyslexia, not “dumbness” or lack of effort. The kid who couldn’t follow directions wasn’t dumb anymore, he had ADHD. Etc.
So do you still think anyone is actually just dumb? Or is being dumb just an outdated shorthand used by observers instead of figuring out what learning difference is keeping the person from performing more capably?
I have come to the conclusion - prior to my diagnosis - that there are different types of intelligence and that some people who are dumb in one area can often be quite smart in others. And vice versa.
Yes, I believe that there are people who are fundamentally dumb but I’m coming to see them as being fewer and fewer.
Keep in mind that when I was thinking of myself as dumb I was a kid. Something that came easily to others was super hard for me so I must be dumb and must try harder not to be. Trying harder just resulted in more failure and frustration. Eventually I just stopped trying. Laziness.
In adulthood I’ve changed from being “dumb” about certain things to “not good” at them. Turns out that there is a reason I’m not good at them other than laziness.
So I’m bumping this in hopes of getting a bit of feedback.
This is screwing with my head. I’ve spent almost all of my life thinking I’m a fuck-up who can’t do much at all outside of my one strength (English in all its forms) because I couldn’t be bothered to learn - despite having done what I felt was my best.
Now I find that my problems were/are due, at least in part, to a malfunction in my brain that could have been addressed and the effect could have been at least somewhat mitigated had someone picked up on it.
I’m not looking to host a pity party or anything but I am hoping someone here might have some insights (personal or professional) into dealing with this and perhaps working around it.
I grant that on the grand scale of things this is niggling at best - but I don’t live on the grand scale.
So I’m bumping this in hopes of getting a bit of feedback.
This is screwing with my head. I’ve spent almost all of my life thinking I’m a fuck-up who can’t do much at all outside of my one strength (English in all its forms) because I couldn’t be bothered to learn - despite having done what I felt was my best.
Now I find that my problems were/are due, at least in part, to a malfunction in my brain that could have been addressed and the effect could have been at least somewhat mitigated had someone picked up on it.
I’m not looking to host a pity party or anything but I am hoping someone here might have some insights (personal or professional) into dealing with this and perhaps working around it.
I grant that on the grand scale of things this is niggling at best - but I don’t live on the grand scale.
Thank you
Thanks Robert. I feel for you. I’ve only just gotten my depression barely under control for the 1st time in 30 years so I can relate. I’ve been unemployed for 2.5 years now and finally feel that I can face up to a challenge. I hope you can find something that allows you to feel the same!
My son has high functioning autism. i have recently heard that what you are describing is considered by some folks to be a form of autism, so I have some suggestions for where to look for help.
“Autism Speaks” This is a massive site, and I find it occasionally difficult to manuveur, but start with **HFA **and **NVLD ** as search terms and then see what you find.
Amazon. Look around for books on your disorder. Try the full name and the abbreviation. I hear a lot of people using NVLD, so don’t be afraid to use that in your searches.
Google. Spend some time looking for autism support groups in your area and then see what resources they might offer.
Discuss this with your psychologist. Now that you have been diagnosed there are absolutely teaching strategies for your profile. My son goes to school with students with this diagnosis. There are also coping strategies. If your psychologist is not versed in this, he should be able to help you find someone who is. You should start working with a psychologist who can help with these strategies now, so that your job re-training will be successful.
Basically, push the psychologist, and spend some time digging around for local groups and resources. You want to find out as much as you can and find resources that make sense to you. Your fall back might be looking for HFA books and seeing if you can find any that refer to NVLD as a subset of HFA.
Information is your friend, so try and gather as much as you can. Keep pushing. It can be frustrating (I really, really know that.) but it’s also rewarding when you find that tidbit of information that makes sense and that coping strategy that works for you.
You’re the same person you were before you had a label for it, and it wasn’t useful to dismiss yourself as a fuck up regardless of what the reason for your failure was. How could you have simultaneously felt the problem was that you “couldn’t be bothered to learn” and that you were trying as hard as you could?
There probably are no dumb people. Probably everyone who does not succeed at things they try at has a disability and we should not judge them as being at fault.
You should try to identify the specific ways your weaknesses are holding you back so you can seek workarounds for them or strengthen them, and you should capitalize on your verbal strength.
So now that you have figured out what has been holding you back all these years, have you been given any strategies for how to go forward and what you can do to play to your strengths?
To me, saying someone is just dumb usually means they lack knowledge and understanding which they are fully capable of acquiring, but can’t be bothered to do so. In a different sense it’s an offensive term for those with general cognitive disability, e.g. developmental disability or acquired dementia.
I don’t think either of these definitions applies to those with learning disabilities like dyslexia or that of the OP. Is it really possible to misdiagnose developmental disability for a specific learning disability, or vice versa? I’m not an expert by any means, but I tend to doubt it.
Can’t be bothered = lazy, not dumb. A genius who refuses to read history books would typically not be described as “dumb.”
Developmentally disabled people are certainly not best-described as “dumb.” Calling someone with Down Syndrome dumb is, well, dumb.
What it really comes down to is that “dumb” is something only other people can be. Sure, we can all do dumb things, but only someone else can exist exclusively as a dumb person. We (and our children, insofar as they are viewed as extensions of ourselves) have extenuating circumstances, reasons, and conditions that mask our inherent smartness, but others–the dumb people–can fail for being dimwitted dolts for no reason at all.
