Oh dear.
Well…can I not still believe he did it out of the the reasons you mentioned, or out of some well meaning but misguided idea of sexual liberation?
I think he was more polymorphically perverse than intergenerationally predatory.
Acht. Say it ain’t so!
I suppose you could say that about Hitler too, in all “fairness”.
Thanks for doing my research for me, manhattan.
Don’t really care why Ginsberg was a member. Maybe he wanted to rape little boys; maybe he was just showing off.
Either way, he was advocating the sexual exploitation of children.
I take back what I said about members of the organization and pit bulls, though.
First skin them alive, rub them with salt, THEN have a rabid pit bull gnaw off their nuts.
According to an interview I saw with John Podhoretz, Norman Mailer was also a member of NAMBLA. John used to hang with the NY intellectual crowd, and was a friend of Norman’s. I don’t know if the charge is true, or if it is a mischaracterization based on a falling-out.
Interesting info for anyone who cares, that I dug up on this site (pay close attention to the last paragraph):
A spokeman for the North American Man-Boy Love Association (NAMBLA) argued for the right to have sex with underaged youngsters and accused the FBI and police of conducting a “witch hunt” against the organization.
The organization, with an estimated membership of 500, is a lobbying group. According to one spokesman, Bill Andriette, NAMBLA is “political and educational,” with a “libertarian, humanistic outlook on sexuality,” arguing that adult society has no right to limit a child’s selection of a sexual partner. The pedophilic Rene Guyon Society of Los Angeles is more strident: its crude motto is “Sex by eight or else it’s too late.” The British Pedophile Information Exchange (P.I.E.) wants the age of consent dropped as low as four.
To hear many pedophiles tell it, they are actually protecting the child by isolating him in a warm, romantic setting, where he gets the love that parents and peers refuse to give. That rationalization has taken in some sexologists, who play down the risk of damage to the child or blame it on the outraged reaction of parents. Those who work with the victims feel very differently.
John Leo says,
As the emergence of NAMBLA shows, pedophiles have learned to package their desires in the language of free sexual expression and the children’s rights movement. But no matter how sanitized, it is still the systematic exploitation of the weak and immature by the powerful and disturbed. Every state has laws protecting its children from sexual abuse. Despite the pedophiles’ belief that almost any sexual taste can be rendered respectable, no society interested in its own preservation can allow such conduct.
Oh ish.
I remember on the Taking Children Seriously list, one guy advocated that, if a child makes friends with a pedophile, don’t forbid the friendship. In fact, he said, if the child WANTS to have sex with the pedophile, just be near so the child can have you intervene if he wants.
I e-mailed him and told him how sick that was. He accused me of a being someone who thinks children are slaves.
Um…Oooohkaaay…sick bastards.
I might still have the e-mail, if anyone’s interested…
Man,
After reading some of this stuff I think pedophiles should recieve the DEATH penalty. I don’t want these guys to even have the possibility to escape. FRY’EM!
Yes, but one has to consider the historical perspective. Back when Nambla started there wasn’t so much opposition to the idea. But Look at Romeo & Juliet (14), that wouldn’t be allowed today, even though Juliet was a child by today’s standards. Is having sex with a 14 year old acceptable? Hawaii’s age of consent is 14.
NAMBLA has been the thorn in the side of the gay movement for years. While we try to be the most accepting group of people possible - post-op trannsexual lesbian? Come on in! - this is the only group that people seem to have issues with.
The reasoning is quite simple: while most gay people fully support just about anything done between two or more consenting adults in private, children are generally not considered mentally developed enough to be making their own fully informed decisions, and so any sex with children, even if the child is not forced, can be truly called voluntary.
It’s often been a tactic of the conservatives to bunch NAMBLA, pedophilia, and necrophilia together with homosexuality in order to prove some point or another. While I feel bad that these men are experiencing desires that cannot be legally fulfilled, I cannot condone their acting upon their desires any more than I can condone the Son of Sam carrying out the orders given to him by the neighbor’s dog.
These statements make me think two things: 1 - you’re comparing apples and oranges and 2 - you’re talking out of your ass.
I’d like to know when exactly there was little to no opposition to grown men exploiting children for sexual purposes.
And you’re Romeo & Juliet example doesn’t hold water here. First off all, Romeo wasn’t that much older than Juliet in the story. And last time I checked, Juliet wasn’t a prepubescent boy.
NAMBLA - Rene Guyon Society - P.I.E., from what I’ve gathered, are nothing but pedophiles gathering together in an attempt to rationalize their desires for exerting their power over immature minds. And it does have less to do with sex that it does with power. Read any article on child molestation and you’ll find this is a common theme.
Davis, I think it sucks that anybody has ever used these social miscreants in an attack on the homosexual community, for the exact reasons as stated above. Healthy sexual desires between adults come in all flavors and none should be judged.
There is nothing healthy nor sexual involved in forcing a child who doesn’t even understand what sex is to engage in these actions.
And many children who are abused grow up to become abusers themselves…it’s a vile, evil cycle.
Howard Stern lampooned NAMBLA in his book Private Parts with a hilarious cartoon depicting Ricky Ricardo and Fred Mertz from I Love Lucy as NAMBLA members. He also related the following:
**“One time on the air I called the NAMBLA hotline and was totally repulsed when a guy who sounded like a cross between Count Dracula and Jose Jimenez delivered the following message: ‘Hello, this is NAMBLA…if you’re a boy, don’t despair, be true to your feelings. Times will change and your opposition will end. If you’re a man, be safe, be brave, and above all be proud to be a boy lover.’”
Sexualizing children is wrong in any circumstance, in my opinion.
IIRC, Juliet was only 13. (or “almost 14,” or something. I’d have to reread the play to be sure.) But, think about it; back then, the average life expectancy was only, what, 40? 50? If you didn’t get married and have sex by 20, you were starting late. Everybody did it when they were teenagers back then.
I’m going to steal a quote from Louis Black of The Daily Show, as he was talking about Jessie Ventura becoming governor:
“This proves what’s so great about America…that anybody can be elected to office or have their views heard. It also proves what’s so horrible about America. Anybody can be elected to office or have their views heard.”
Hmmm. I just saw that on TV. And I learned 3 things:
I horribly misworded it. But that’s why I specifically didn’t use [ quote ]s. I knew I’d screw something up.
I can’t spell. It’s “Lewis,” not “Louis.”
It was “Comedy Central Presents: Lewis Black,” not actually on The Daily Show.
We now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.
I got drunk with Lewis, you know.
::revels in the fame::
–Tim
you shitter.
He walked by me over the summer, but that’s about it. Took me a sec to figure out who he was, and I just said, “Hey… it’s you!”
I just saw him in “Jacob’s Ladder” the other day too. Again, really took me by surprise.
jvb
Please read this if you think sexual abuse of children or the acceptance of sexual abuse is anything that off the wall.
http://www.geocities.com/HotSprings/Spa/7173/ph-abuse.htm
Needs2know
Why, I believe it was only yesterday that I was debating in the pit the difference between child abuse, rape, bestiality, and homosexuality to someone who was unclear - and continues to be unclear - on the difference between them.
If you’re wondering where Bill heard about NAMBLA, my guess is: http://thebruces.stormbirds.org/forum/showthread.php?threadid=1711&pagenumber=1
That’s probably a pretty good guess, Davis, but I’d rather see a link to the Pit debate you were talking about. I trust this board (fallible as we all are) more than the Pizza Whatever Board.
I read that whole thread, it is my considered opinion that the Pizza Shop boys are bunch of zealous loons. Talk about an agenda. They’ll reach for anything to try to prove their point.
Davis,
Not a bad guess but not totally accurate either. While the thread at the pizza parlor probably spured(sp) this thead, I originally heard about it 6 months ago from another member in a weekly Bible study I attend.
And Jack,
Not everybody is a zealous loon over at the pizza parlor (like me 
). There are some really pretty good people. But I think this issue of NAMBLA just kind of gets everybody upset that they even exist.