Our problem with North Korea is the same one we have with Iran: we assume that we have the economic and military power to force the enemy to capitulate to our demands and reach an accord on terms that are largely favorable to us, even if it threatens the existence of the other power’s regime. Make no mistake about it: we’re waging war with North Korea and Iran; we’re just waging war with them economically because we’d rather not deal with the loss of life militarily, which would be potentially problematic at home politically. We apply pressure because the assumption is that they will eventually bend and break.
What North Korea and Iran are doing is what the other member of the Axis of Evil did not, perhaps because they simply could not. North Korea and Iran are using whatever limited means they have at their disposal to apply counter-pressure. I get the sense that John Bolton has advocated bombing the shit out of both countries and that even Mike Pompeo might be trying to talk some sense into him, and Pompeo’s probably not above dropping massive amounts of ordnance on foreign countries who piss him off. Other than that, I doubt that the Trump foreign policy brain trust has thought much about how they got themselves into this mess, and they’ve probably thought even less about how to get out.
I think the average person has little idea about just how dangerous both situations are. Maybe they accept the fact that Iran’s dangerous because “Helloooo, like, um, Muslims! Crazy!” But I don’t think the average American idiot really understands the particularly dangerous nature of the dynamics at play. We’re setting up a situation in which misreading, miscalculation leads to massive war.
Seven minute long Wall Street Journal video attempts to address this thread, titled:
“North Korea suspending missle testing and closing nuclear site: Trump the statesman?”
with a Youtube posting titled: Why North Korea Appears to Be Expanding Its Nuclear Arsenal
(I’m not in a faux news misinformation bubble, so I don’t know the line: The Wall Street Journal. Are they leftist socialists?)
Very interesting and seemingly well-sourced video.
Some of the video, such as the possibility of the North having 20-60 nukes already, is speculative; however, it’s within the realm of the possible for sure. It would make sense for North Korea to negotiate because a country like North Korea would want to be negotiating from a position of strength: giving up nuclear weapons was always a laughable idea because it gives up their strength. But even suspending weapons production is perhaps a risk North Korea can’t afford to take.
If - and it’s a big ‘if’ - North Korea does indeed have multiple warheads, then the last step is to develop reliable means of delivery to hit the US mainland. If that, in fact, happens, then there is really nothing that the US can do at this point since fighting North Korea would be mutually assured devastation.
But beyond the concern of a nuclearized North Korean peninsula, if it’s true that North Korea can continue developing a nuclear weapons stockpile right under our noses while the president is chasing a foolish diplomacy based on nothing more than his admiration for dictators, Christ Almighty is this country inviting all kinds of danger. It would, to me, be a clear sign that the national security apparatus (Defense, State, et al) is rapidly corroding.
They’re still producing nukes.
They’re still launching missiles into the sea.
They’re still making belligerent threats.
There’s no new agreements or treaties.
There are no ongoing negotiations.
There’s no denuclearization happening.
Trump saluted a North Korean General.
Trump gave a sense of legitimacy to Kim Jong-Un.
Trump has even weighed just throwing in the towel and accepting a nuclear North Korea. :eek:
We still don’t know what kind of money and concessions Trump gave to North Korea in exchange for talks. Because they’ve ALWAYS been paid for talks.
Trump, for all of his talk and his criticism of Obama, has produced zero actual results. Just as I told you would happen at the beginning of this mess.
It didn’t take an oracle to figure that out. Remember the typical conservative take on all this from the beginning:
Everybody knew he’d fail, but it didn’t matter because Obama. The GOP has successfully convinced its base that failures are actually victories because a failure is either:
No better than Obama, so who cares? At least Donald is out there throwing punches!
The opposite of Obama, whose successes were actually covert failures, so who cares? At least Trump isn’t, you know, a fist-bumping, tan-suit-wearing, “Kenyan.”
“What happened to the old pat on the back?”
As the footage shows President Obama patting distinguished First Lady Michelle Obama on the back.
God, Faux news can take a flying fuck at a rolling dumpster fire.
Back on topic, this is also going to be a problem for the US going forward, and it poses a potential danger that North Korea has been trying to exploit for years: hostility between Japan and South Korea (Japan and all of East Asia, really).
On the surface, it looks like an economics or trade dispute, but it’s really much deeper than that. For years, Koreans (and several other East Asian countries) have called on Japan to acknowledge its wartime past, which Japan has been of course reluctant to do. Last year, a South Korean court ordered a Japanese steel conglomerate with a role in the enslavement of Koreans during Japan’s colonial period to pay reparations. This ruling has been further supported by South Korea’s current ruling party, led by Moon, but it actually contravenes the 1965 agreement that Japan and S Korea agreed to as a means of reconciliation. At that time, Japan actually proposed some compensation, but instead the South Korean government said it would assume that responsibility and use funds from their settlement to help compensate victims and their families. Now South Korea is reversing itself.
But tensions between Japan may have also been heightened when Trump and South Korea met with Kim Jung Un and did so not only over the objections of Abe Shinzo, but ostensibly left him (and Japan) out of the diplomatic process. This despite the fact that it’s Japan that has been repeatedly threatened most directly by the Kim regime. In short, the Kim regime, going back to Jung Un’s father, Jong Il, has sought to use Japan as a wedge between South Korea and the United States, while also keeping in mind that Japan may ultimately decide to assert itself more independently, which is something that would be fiercely opposed by not only South Korea but also China, and even other Asian nations who remember Japan’s past.
This is only a problem is you are trying to prevent a war or hostilities. As it is quite obvious that the actual desire is to go to war, they are following a perfectly clear path to making that inevitable.
It would only be people against the idea of unnecessary wars that would see a fault in Trump’s diplomatic strategies.
Is that submarine deployed yet? If that thing can deliver nuclear missiles, we have a serious problem (even more serious that is). How long until it has an undefined accident at sea and sinks?
Relax, everybody: “I have no problem, we’ll see what happens but short range (missiles) are very standard,” Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a rally in Ohio.
