North Korea suspending missile testing and closing nuclear site; Trump the statesman?

[running_coach]

@Kent_Clark

Very comforting to the Japanese and South Koreans. Not to mention the 25,000 or so U.S. troops stationed in South Korea and another 56,000 in Japan.

He prefers troops protecting our border rather than some foreign country that doesn’t even speak English.
And I’m not even trying to be funny.

[asahi]

The end game from the Sino-North Korean side is to convince South Korea and Japan that the US isn’t needed for regional stability. If North Korea has nuclear stockpiles and can threaten South Korea and Japan with missile test after missile test, then that puts pressure on the US to do something. But what can the US do at that point? China and North Korea want to convince South Korea and Japan that hosting the US is more trouble than we’re worth, and that we won’t really protect them anyway. In short, paper tiger.

[XT]

@QuickSilver

Relax, everybody: “I have no problem, we’ll see what happens but short range (missiles) are very standard,” Trump told reporters as he left the White House for a rally in Ohio.

Well yeah…they kind of are. I have no idea why folks are harping on this in this thread. Basically, this is artillery. This isn’t anything like the ICBM’s they WERE testing before. Most countries have this sort of artillery system, and most countries test it fairly often. I guess if you guys want to try and equate NK firing an MLRS type short range rocket system as equivalent to them firing ICBM test rockets over, oh, say Japan, well that’s fine…but it makes you guys seem like you are reaching. And, frankly, a bit ignorant of what this is or means.

I have no doubt that, eventually, NK will get back to firing the big boys. IMHO, it’s a matter of time. But pointing to them firing this does not equate to them going back to the antics they were doing before they suspended testing.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@XT

Well yeah…they kind of are. I have no idea why folks are harping on this in this thread. Basically, this is artillery. This isn’t anything like the ICBM’s they WERE testing before. Most countries have this sort of artillery system, and most countries test it fairly often. I guess if you guys want to try and equate NK firing an MLRS type short range rocket system as equivalent to them firing ICBM test rockets over, oh, say Japan, well that’s fine…but it makes you guys seem like you are reaching. And, frankly, a bit ignorant of what this is or means.

It’s a good thing nobody has done that then; phew.

@XT

I have no doubt that, eventually, NK will get back to firing the big boys. IMHO, it’s a matter of time. But pointing to them firing this does not equate to them going back to the antics they were doing before they suspended testing.

Wow! Another thing that nobody has done! That’s amazing!

[XT]

@Snowboarder_Bo

It’s a good thing nobody has done that then; phew.
Wow! Another thing that nobody has done! That’s amazing!

So, you had no point in bringing this up repeatedly then? Good to know! Thanks!

[Snowboarder_Bo]

@XT

So, you had no point in bringing this up repeatedly then? Good to know! Thanks!

That’s it? That’s the comeback you thought of and decided to post when called out on your strawmen: another strawman?

ETA: If you don’t want to keep abreast of the NKorea news and developments, I’m sure you can find a way to do that.

[XT]

@Snowboarder_Bo

That’s it? That’s the comeback you thought of and decided to post when called out on your strawmen: another strawman?

ETA: If you don’t want to keep abreast of the NKorea news and developments, I’m sure you can find a way to do that.

Except it’s not a strawman. You continually brought it up because you thought it means something wrt your original OP. You thought it meant that Trumps plan failed because now, after several years, North Korea is once again testing…artillery. I can’t decide if you are ignorant about what this stuff actually is, or manipulative, counting on the ignorance of others. I keep going back and forth on that one in this thread.

The real unfortunate think is you ARE right…eventually this is going to come back and bite Trump and the US on the ass. Eventually, North Korea WILL go back to actually testing REAL ICBMs (and nukes as well), not short range rocket artillery. But using this to keep your thread going is just silly. Come back when they actually start firing ICBM’s in ‘tests’ over Japan. It’s going to happen.

Or, keep breathlessly posting about North Korea testing short range rockets as if that means something. Your call. And, hell, your audience is breathless for your next post about meaningless stuff proving Trump is an idiot…as if at this point anyone needs that proof.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Trump plays down latest North Korea missile tests:

Trump tweeted that North Korea’s recent tests of short-range missiles weren’t part of the commitments he and Kim made at their historic June 2018 summit in Singapore , although he conceded they might be in violation of a U.N. resolution.

“There may be a United Nations violation, but Chairman Kim does not want to disappoint me with a violation of trust,” Trump tweeted. “There is far too much for North Korea to gain - the potential as a Country, under Kim Jong Un’s leadership, is unlimited.”

Trump said Kim can only achieve his “great and beautiful vision for his country” if he is the U.S. president.

“He will do the right thing because he is far too smart not to, and he does not want to disappoint his friend, President Trump!”

NKorea, meanwhile, stayed away from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and thus shunned a meeting with the US Envoy to NKorea.

It’s like they’re eating out of Trump’s hand!

[asahi]

@XT

Eventually, North Korea WILL go back to actually testing REAL ICBMs (and nukes as well), not short range rocket artillery.

And why do you believe that North Korea will eventually go back to testing its more advanced weapons capabilities?

[Buck_Godot]

@Snowboarder_Bo

Trump plays down latest North Korea missile tests:NKorea, meanwhile, stayed away from the Association of Southeast Asian Nations and thus shunned a meeting with the US Envoy to NKorea.

It’s like they’re eating out of Trump’s hand!

I gotta wonder how Bolton is viewing his bosses fawning obsequiousness. Maybe something like this.

[Buck_Godot]

nm double post

[SingleMalt]

Just to clarify a couple of things.

First, a missile is not a rocket, or artillery. Missiles have guidance capability, rockets and artillery do not.

And these are not simplistic “ballistic” guidance systems. Hereis a short description, summarized from here:

“Trump calls the short-range missiles that North Korea has recently launched “very standard.” Experts say they are anything but: They warn that the solid-fueled, hypersonic KN-23 is hard to defend against because it’s launched from trucks and thus is highly mobile, and because it can cruise low and flexibly maneuver when it gets close to its intended target. The missile, according to defense analysts, seems similar to the cutting-edge Russian Iskander missile that U.S. analysts call “top of the line.” Although its capabilities aren’t fully known, it’s thought that it could possibly penetrate U.S. defense systems in South Korea.”

Solid fueled, hypersonic, cruise-type guidance. These are sophisticated systems, not “artillery”.

Can these missiles reach the US? No, they are short range. A missile doesn’t have to be an ICBM to pose a threat to Americans, though.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Thank you for helping to refute XT’s nonsense, SingleMalt.

[asahi]

@SingleMalt

Just to clarify a couple of things.

First, a missile is not a rocket, or artillery. Missiles have guidance capability, rockets and artillery do not.

And these are not simplistic “ballistic” guidance systems. Hereis a short description, summarized from here:

“Trump calls the short-range missiles that North Korea has recently launched “very standard.” Experts say they are anything but: They warn that the solid-fueled, hypersonic KN-23 is hard to defend against because it’s launched from trucks and thus is highly mobile, and because it can cruise low and flexibly maneuver when it gets close to its intended target. The missile, according to defense analysts, seems similar to the cutting-edge Russian Iskander missile that U.S. analysts call “top of the line.” Although its capabilities aren’t fully known, it’s thought that it could possibly penetrate U.S. defense systems in South Korea.”

Solid fueled, hypersonic, cruise-type guidance. These are sophisticated systems, not “artillery”.

Can these missiles reach the US? No, they are short range. A missile doesn’t have to be an ICBM to pose a threat to Americans, though.

Great post. Thanks for that!

[Snowboarder_Bo]

A couple of pieces of news today.

First: North Korea fires presumed ballistic missiles as talks stall.

North Korea continued to ramp up its weapons demonstrations by firing two presumed short-range ballistic missiles into the sea Tuesday while lashing out at the United States and South Korea for continuing military exercises that the North says could derail fragile nuclear diplomacy.

South Korea’s military alerted reporters to the launches minutes before the North’s Foreign Ministry denounced Washington and Seoul over the start of their joint exercises on Monday. The ministry’s statement said the drills, which North Korea sees as an invasion rehearsal, leave the country “compelled to develop, test and deploy the powerful physical means essential for national defense.”

The statement from an unidentified spokesperson said Pyongyang remains committed to dialogue, but it could seek a “new road” if the allies don’t change their positions.

“It is too axiomatic that a constructive dialogue cannot be expected at a time when a simulated war practice targeted at the dialogue partner is being conducted,” said the statement released by Pyongyang’s official Korean Central News Agency. “We remain unchanged in our stand to resolve the issues through dialogue. But the dynamics of dialogue will be more invisible as long as the hostile military moves continue.”

So they want to talk but they’re gonna carry a big stick:

Seoul’s Joint Chiefs of Staff said the two projectiles the North flew cross-country were likely short-range ballistic missiles. They were launched early Tuesday from an area near the North’s western coast and traveled about 450 kilometers (279 miles) on an apogee of 37 kilometers (23 miles) at a maximum speed of above Mach 6.9 before landing in waters off the country’s eastern coast, the JCS said.

The JCS said the projectiles showed similar flight characteristics to short-range missiles North Korea fired on July 25, which traveled about 600 kilometers (373 miles) during launches the North described a “solemn warning” to South Korea over its plans to continue military drills with the United States.

South Korea’s military had said the flight data of the July missiles showed similarities to the Russian-made Iskander, a solid-fuel, nuclear capable missile that is highly maneuverable and travels on lower trajectories compared to conventional ballistic weapons, improving its chances of evading missile defense systems.

The other news is that NKorea appears to have upped their game in another, very profitable way: UN report: North Korea cyber experts raised up to $2 billion.

A panel monitoring U.N. sanctions says North Korean cyber experts have illegally raised money for the country’s weapons of mass destruction programs “with total proceeds to date estimated at up to $2 billion.”

The experts said in a new report to the Security Council that North Korea is using cyberspace “to launch increasingly sophisticated attacks to steal funds from financial institutions and cryptocurrency exchanges to generate income” in violation of sanctions.

21st century conflict is going to be complicated:

The experts’ report, seen Monday by The Associated Press, said large-scale attacks against cryptocurrency exchanges by North Korea allow the country “to generate income in ways that are harder to trace and subject to less government oversight and regulation than the traditional banking sector.”

North Korea also continues to have access to the global financial system, “through bank representatives and networks operating worldwide” as a result of “deficiencies” by U.N. member states in implementing financial sanctions and Pyongyang’s “deceptive practices,” the experts said.

NKorea is also using a number of fronts to move arms, fuel and information:

The experts said representatives from three North Korean entities under U.N. sanctions — KOMID, Saeng Pil and Namchongang — continued to operates overseas, including under diplomatic cover, “attempting to transfer conventional weapons and expertise and to procure equipment and technology for the country’s WMD (weapons of mass destruction) programs.”

The Munitions Industry Department and other sanctioned entities also continued to raise funds for these programs by sending information technology workers abroad, the panel said. And the Reconnaissance General Bureau and other sanctioned bodies, including the Mansudae Overseas Project Group, “also engaged in the import of luxury goods and attempted sale of frozen assets overseas” in violation of U.N. sanctions.

NKorea isn’t helpless, and they’re now demanding to be treated as an equal. :eek:

Thanks, Trump!

[asahi]

In addition to their ability to scheme their way into ill-gotten crypto gains, I suspect that the North Koreans are now getting a bit more help from China than they were before the Trump-Kim detente began. Now that the US is fully challenging China to an economic death match, there’s simply no reason for China to help the US with North Korea at this point, aside from its own self-interest in not seeing another nation possess WMD capabilities.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Some pretty severe posturing going on:

North Korea said Wednesday leader Kim Jong Un supervised a live-fire demonstration of newly developed, short-range ballistic missiles intended to send a warning to the United States and South Korea over their joint military exercises.

The official Korean Central News Agency said two missiles launched from a western airfield flew across the country and over the area surrounding the capital, Pyongyang, before accurately hitting an island target off its eastern coast.

The KCNA said the launches early Tuesday verified the reliability and combat ability of “new-type tactical guided missiles.” Kim expressed satisfaction and said the launches would send an appropriate level of warning to the military exercises between the United States and South Korea that began on Monday, the report said.

There are numerous pictures at that link, all of which came from the Korean Central News Agency, the DPRK’s official news agency.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

North Korea says it’s willing to resume fake nuke talks with US in order to play Trump like a fiddle again! Seriously; they are approaching the table with a strong posture:

North Korea said Monday it’s willing to resume nuclear diplomacy with the United States in late September, but only if the U.S. comes to the negotiating table with satisfactory new proposals.

If the proposals don’t satisfy North Korea, dealings between the two countries will come to an end, First Vice Foreign Minister Choe Son Hui said.

In a statement carried by state media, Choe said North Korea has given the U.S. enough time to map out new proposals to salvage the nuclear negotiations.

This echoes what was said earlier this year:

In April, North Korean leader Kim Jong Un said the U.S. must come up with new proposals to revive the talks by December.

They bought themselves quite a bit of time with almost no effort or expense; a great example of statesmanship, IMO. Too bad I’m too biased to admire it, eh.

[Buck_Godot]

Kim realizes that 2020 is coming and Trump is desperate diplomatic victory, any diplomatic victory, in order to support the notion that he is a master negotiator. All the leverage is on Kim’s side and he knows it. All he has to do is promise not to do any testing until November 4th 2020 and Trump will give him anything he wants.

[Snowboarder_Bo]

Right after saying they were ready to talk about de-nuking again, North Korea fired off a couple of missiles:

The North Korean projectiles fired from its South Phyongan province, which surrounds its capital city of Pyongyang, flew about 330 kilometers (205 miles) across the country and in the direction of the waters off its east coast, according to South Korea’s Joint Chiefs of Staff and Defense Ministry.

The military said South Korea will monitor possible additional launches. The JCS said the U.S. and South Korean militaries were analyzing the launches but didn’t immediately say whether the weapons were ballistic missiles or rocket artillery.