North Korean coup?

Russian diplomats speculate a secret coup have taken place in North Korea after images of Kim Jong Il have been removed from several public buildings in Pyongyang and state-run media have dropped the “Dear Leader” attribute. Others think Kim Jong Il has engineered the changes himself – but for what end?

Ahh… if this don’t bring me back to the good old days of crypto-kremlinism and Pravda small print reading.

Pictures missing?

Actually, I’m more mystified by the presence of a Candian tourist. How many Air Miles did that set him back?

We’re everywhere. :slight_smile:

Most obvious intelligence agent ever.

'Course, I’m from the US, so I really shouldn’t be making fun of anybody elses intelligence services.

Any move N. Korea makes towards less insanity, even if its taking down a few pictures, is a good thing. Hope its a trend. Of course if they make nice, what the hell are we gonna do with that 10 billion dollar missle defense system.

As I mentionned in another thread, during Arafat’s funerals, someone in th ecrowd followed the casket waving a big Canadian flag…

Everywhere, indeed.

Coincidentally, the only person I know who’s been to North Korea was Canadian.

He was, however, living in Taiwan at the time, so it wasn’t much of a hike.

As for the coup: if the same people who keep Kim in power have removed him, it ain’t going to mean diddly.

It would be interesting if true but I wouldn’t hold my breath. Still, if it DID happen, we can expect to see some old Soviet style clues in their press. Eventually they will say something about his increasingly poor health…and then they will stuff the old boy (and patch up that hole in the back of his head of course) and slap him into a glass box with daddy.

However, I agree with jjimm…even if they wacked Kimmy, it won’t really change the situation much except to give them an new boss to fear. The North Korean communists are in a very bad position…loosen their grip and it all flys apart. Keep holding on so tight and eventually it all flys apart.

-XT

Am I the only one picturing a very white skinned guy, sunburn optional, with a loud shirt, shorts, dark socks and hard-soled shoes, camera around his neck, with zinc-oxide on his nose and dark glasses, bad straw hat, wandering around Pyongyang with a map open half the time?

  • Shibb, in Florida, who knows a thing or two about our beloved Canadian visitors.

I was thinking more the ‘college kid on leave with the flag on his pack asking where the youth hostel was’ thing myself.

-JC, who spent far too much time in Downtown DC.

China’s communists were able to move away from the oppresive “cult-of-personality” thing into a more liberal (well, relativly) form of government after Mao died. One might hope that the lure of foriegn dollars might get N. Korea to do the same thing, especially if Kim is indicating that he wants to move away from a hero-worship based system of gov’t before he dies.

Course I really don’t know much about the situation there, it may be less analogous to China then I hope.

That would depend on their motivations. If it was a simple power grab, the new regime could be either marginally better or marginally worse. If it was to prevent Kim from doing something that would end in disaster for North Korea (i.e. start a war), it would probably be a modest improvement.

Of course, it remains to be seen if anything has happened at all.

Well, plus he has to have a Tim Horton’s plastic coffee mug hooked to his backpack, so he can be identified by other Canadians.

In other news, Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead.

Daniel

I think you’re right on.

The hermetically-sealed hero-worshipping nation thing is/was a helluva lotta fun for a few hundred boys at the top, and probably could be kept in place for awhile. It is not, however a long-term solution, and it has long been in NK’s interest to move toward a market economy and normal relations with the rest of the world. At some point, more of the people at the top are thinking long-term than short-term, and the blance tips.

I can imagine Kim on either side – either as a Chiang Ching-kuo figure, realizing that his dictatorial rule is not in the interest of his nation, or as the bitter tyrant, holding onto power until someone puts a round through his head.

I’m inclined to guess the latter, but that’s probably becuase I saw “Team America” twice.

I think the missile defense system is more useful to those in power with NK playing nice than if NK was able to lob a nuke or two over; with the war, we’d have to admit that we wasted money deploying something that doesn’t work, rather than bragging about deploying it.

I am a little cynical about exactly how much power North Korean leaders have; I get the impression they’re mere figureheads behind the state machine, convenient for rallying the people, but with little actual policy input. Having said that, I don’t know why I have this impression, so maybe I need to do a bit more reading.

He’s just busy starring in The Incredibles

This very interesting Spiegel article (English) details ongoing rebellion and resistance in that country. Highly recommended read. I had had no idea.

From what I’ve read, it sounds like close observers of North Korea (some agencies in Japan) don’t think there was a coup. Their speculation is that Kim is aware of that people aren’t very happy - yes, they say people are openly criticizing him - and as such is scaling back his cult of personality a little bit in response. There were articles about this on CNN, but I don’t think they’ll appear in their database for a few days.