I need some clairification on Christian teaching. When christians die, do they not remain dead until the second comming? How, then do prospective saints perform the miracles needed for them to be cannonized? And when babies die, it is said that God wants them with him. Dosen’t he also have to wait for comming #2?
Not exactly. From what I understand, (and feel free to correct me) When a person dies they can either go straight to heaven, to Purgatory, for a fixed period of time (that can be shortened with indulgences) depending on their Sins, or straight to hell. Unbaptised babies go to Limbo until the Judgement.
Thats all I can remember. Not bad for a Lapsed Catholic eh?
J
Because Fido ate the Hand Grenade for me,
When the Tans came round to search the house at tea,
I said, “Take this, dog, and eat”,
He thought it was a can of meat,
It was the hand grenade that Fido ate for me.
“Christian” teaching is a misnomer. There are a lot of Christians with a lot of different ideas.
The idea of intercession by saints (in which the saint would pray for a person to God, who would effect the miracle) obviously would not work in a scenario in which the saint was “sleeping” or dead until the Second Coming. Those who accept the idea of intervention of saints (or babies being “with” God) generally follow the idea put forth in two statements by Jesus:
In the parable of the rich man and the poor man named Lazarus (Lk 16:19-31), Lazarus and Abraham are both portrayed as being in Heaven and very much awake. At the crucifixion, Jesus tells the “good” thief that “Today you will be with me in Paradise.” (Lk 23:39-43)
In these cases, the idea is that those who died are not unconscious (whatever other conditions may apply to them) between their physical deaths and the Second Coming.
Those who espouse the idea that the dead are unaware until the final Resurrection would probably cite other passages to support their contention.
I suspect that posting this on the LBMB would get several pages of different responses. (I’m not suggesting a troll, it would be a way to see the wide variety of Christian responses to deatrh.)
Tom~
This question is sure to generate a lot of different opinions; many seem to be quite rabid about their beliefs.
The bible seems to make a great distiction between things “physical” (the things that are of the world) and things “spiritual” (the things that are of God [or god/g*d/d/g or whatever if you object to the capitalization]). They way I understand it, the spirit can exist apart from the body (e.g. when we die), and the spirit “ascends” to fellowship with God or “descends” to spiritual death of an existence without God. The second coming of Christ is when the physical body is to be resurrected. Exactly what will happen, and when, is a “mystery”, which means humans don’t know for sure when or what will happen, only the almighty, no matter how loud somebody shouts. The book of Revelation is not exactly the most straightforward reading, so an awful lot of interpretation is involved. Translation: you can justify just about any crackpot idea you want by emphasizing your particular interpretation.
What is encouraging, though, is that the books of Tim LaHaye and their ilk are now listed as “religious fiction” in my local bookstore.
This sig not Y2K compliant. Happy 1900.
1.) When people die, their souls go to heaven and they are just as conscious and aware as if they were still alive, if not moreso. Their bodies are “sleeping.” The whole point of the second coming is that the physical world will merge with the spiritual world and Jesus will rule on the Earth as he does in heaven (forever). In that case, all of the dead Christians will need their bodies again, and they will all be resurrected when this happens.
2.) Non-predeterminist Christians (i.e. not John Calvin) believe that salvation can only be achieved through an explicit choice. Ergo, if you don’t know enough to make the choice to accept Jesus, or can’t make that choice because you have never been told about Jesus, then you will be taken to heaven when you die. (Or at least you won’t go to hell)
Forgot to include the word “innocent”. It’s an important concept with regards to the baby question.
question…
If you go straight to heaven or hell when you die…What is the purpose of judgement day?
In history they will not fill their heads with battles, nor in geography with fortresses, for it becomes them just as little to reek of
gunpowder as it does the males to reek of musk.
- Immanuel KantI knew a Seventh Day Adventist who said that once you die your bodies and souls “sleep” till God wakes you up to give judgement. Of course you never know that you slept…you just die and BOOM! judgement day. The reason why they sleep is that God an Jesus are figureing out just who goes to heaven and who perishes (he didn’t believe in Hell.) so that the actual judgement day goes a bit faster. Once they figure it all they will wake everyone. Those who are lucky enough to be living their natural lifespans during those end times actually have a cut off date sometime before the judgement day after which they cannot be saved.