How about those of us who aren’t atheists and are STILL anti-religion? Where do we fit in?
Seriously, I wish religious people would just shut the heck up about their beliefs. They’re irrelevant, and somehow I’M the one being rude when I don’t want to be beat about the head and neck with their holy book.
You bring up part of the problem. Nobody seems to mind that MLK used religion for his work, but they do mind that many in the Confederacy used religion to justify slavery. I have had the rights of gays preached from the pulpit, and I know that denying gays rights is also preached from the pulpit. Many of the anti-death penalty activists do so out of following their interpretation of the 10 Commandments.
Saying you don’t want religion on your government encompasses far more than just anti-gay and prayer in school folks.
I don’t feel that it’s anti-religious to not want religion pushed down your throat. I’m against any mention of God in the Pledge of Allegiance, for instance. I’m against anyone who tries to pass a law based on religious morality that impairs the rights of innocent, law-abiding citizens.
But if an individual starts preaching to me, I am in complete control over how I respond - for instance, when LDS or JW witnessers come knocking, I tell them politely that I am atheist, and they always say “thanks” and go away. If a family member tries to tell me I’m going to hell (hasn’t happened in a long while) I calmly tell them I don’t believe in life after death.
Or I could tell them “you’re wrong/misguided/delusional/etc.” - see how far that gets you in any discussion. I don’t care if you’re discussing religion vs. atheism, or Less Filling vs. Tastes Great, a response of “you’re wrong” will never end well.
I guess a good litmus test for whether you are truly anti-religious if if you feel that religious people are all
If you agree with that quote, then yeah, you’re probably anti-religious.
Thanks for the link.
No doubt–nevertheless, the opening sentences of the report are:
*Religion in the United States is often described as a vibrant marketplace where individuals pick and choose religions that meet their needs, and religious groups are compelled to compete for members. The Landscape Survey confirms that, indeed, there is a remarkable amount of movement by Americans from one religious group to another. *
I think it’s safe to say that they agree with the basic concept that many Americans shop around for religion.
I don’t know. The consequences of choosing the wrong deodorant are fairly minor, so there is good reason for a person to try out several brands. The consequences of choosing the wrong religion are–assuming that one of them is true–quite dire, and I find it remarkable that over a quarter are brave enough to switch (at least for those told that they would be sent to eternal hellfire for behaving incorrectly). Unless, of course, the religions aren’t believed in quite so strenuously as it appears. I can’t say anything on that point.
Well I’m NOT an atheist, and I don’t want religion in my government either, if that helps.
No argument here, except to surmise that maybe people aren’t really shopping around for religion, per se, but rather for a congregation that meets their particular social/cultural/“spiritual” needs, but retains the core values they are used to.
I will say that America is a weird beast when it comes to religion, and it doesn’t surprise me that our population seems more mercurial about its faith than other, nearly equally religious countries like Ireland, Italy and Portugal. We’re a young country, with comparatively little shared cultural history to speak of, and we haven’t really had a single religious institution intertwined in our history as have many European countries.
But I still think that speaks to the innate need many people have for religion in their lives - they may be church-hopping, but the point is, most folks who change affiliation for whatever reason are more likely to choose another faith (likely with pretty similar beliefs) than to join the ranks of us atheists/agnostics/Humanists.
Our ranks are growing though, and it does make sense - as many European countries drifted from their religious roots decades and centuries ago, so will the US in time (whether the fundamentalists like it or not).
There’s an elephant in the room when talking about recent religious “drift” - Catholics switched their faith at a higher rate than average (32% of those born Catholic changed their affiliation in some way), with almost half of those who switched staying unaffiliated.
I wonder how many of those switched due to the sex abuse scandals, and of those unaffiliated, how many still believe in god, but just reject the church?
Hard to argue with this. I’m another religious person who is against religion in government.
This is the point that I always go back to when I have to deal with fundamentalist, evangelical atheists.
How is it better for you to tell me I’m deluded and stupid to believe, and shove that down my throat, than it is for someone to try to preach to you?
Why am I lumped in with a (admittedly, very loud) vocal minority of people, when I have never tried to convert anyone, never been rude about others beliefs (or lack thereof), never persecuted anyone for any reason?
I’ve yet to get any sort of answer to that other than bluster, smoke and mirrors.
In Racism: A Short History, George M. Frederickson argues that it was actually the increased secularization of society that allowed slavery to truly take root in its most horrific form in the United States. Until then, many people believed they had a responsibility to teach slaves to read and write, to instruct them morally and generally take better care of them. Slaveholders also had to deal with Christians at the time who were opposed to slavery on religious grounds. The rise of secularism, he argues, allowed society at large to reject the notion that slaves where equal to white men and to embrace the concept of genetic inferiority. It’s an interesting idea.
I agree that religion gets blamed for the evils of its followers and not enough credit for the good. Look at the role the Catholic church has played in alleviating poverty. Catholicism currently plays an enormous role in caring for immigrants in the United States. Then there’s liberation theology which allowed oppressed blacks to find empowerment through the transformation of their opressor’s ideology.
That said, plenty of us are capable of creating compassionate and strong communities without religious influence. I wouldn’t argue that it’s necessary for a just society… only that the two are not mutually exclusive.
I’ll answer for me personally - it isn’t. But maybe you don’t realize how pervasive religion is in this country. Just in casual conversation (at least, here in West Michigan, which is admittedly a little Bible Belt of its own) people regularly thank God for trivial crap, say they’ll be “praying for” someone/something/me, discuss the doings of their church and debate whether things are “wrong” or not with no basis besides the tenants of their faith. I just want religious people to shut the heck up, that’s all. I don’t care if they have religion - even though I think religion is both silly and dangerous - I just want them to keep it to themselves.
Personally, I don’t go “rabid anti-theist” on anyone who isn’t beating me with their Bible. I ignore it, 99% of the time. But the fact is that it’s socially acceptable to harangue people about religion, at least in my part of the country, and it’s not equally ok to tell people you don’t believe in God or don’t go to church.
Every time American Christians talk about their faith being “under attack” or use the word “repression” I laugh and laugh. We live in a society where being Christian is the default position and anything else is still abnormal. When that changes, I’ll probably be less resentful.
I believe that religion itself is all those things.
I believe that religious people are silly and believe in absolutely ridiculous things that I find impossible to regard with anything other than incredulity.
I find the notion that there could be, and even probably is, a Greater Power of some sort totally fine. I find the notion that we could possibly know anything about It, or how It’s mind works, or what It wants, or Its preferences, utterly ridiculous. We can’t even understand how other humans think and feel. The idea that God is a person is, to me, the most offensive thing about religion.
Like I said, I don’t think religious people are evil or malicious, but I can’t understand why they think that something great enough to make the Universe cares who we sleep with, what name we call It, or whether or not I’ve lost my car keys.
Because all the facts are on the side of atheism. And because sitting back and letting only the religious preach at everyone won’t accomplish anything but let them spread their lies unopposed. What you are doing is demanding that atheists shut up and take it.
And what does " fundamentalist atheist" even mean?
Even assuming they are a minority* you support the exact same bad reasoning that they use to excuse their beliefs, you help make it acceptable. And you probably contribute financially to religious organizations of which they are a part.
*Which I doubt; it wasn’t a minority that voted to outlaw single sex marriage here in California.
Sound like another attempt to divert the blame. One of the motives for slavery and for it being so brutal and dehumanizing was to force Christianity upon the slaves, to erase their old culture and impose Christianity on them. And it largely worked, too. As for secularism making it easier to excuse slavery, Christianity in the Old South pretty much was nothing else but an excuse for slavery. The Bible can easily be used to justify slavery, and the old slavers and other racists have never had any problem using Christianity to excuse their actions. Blacks are the result of “the curse of Ham”, or other races are separate and inferior creations of god; not human at all but animals. As for teaching slaves to read, that was just because some sects believed that everyone should read the Bible, not out of any actual concern for the slaves.