Presumably when you are on a date you are not just out for a good time but seeking a spouse. Since fidelity is highly prized in a mate, someone who is quick to have sex may not make a good mate. Also since someone on a first date is usually a stranger and having sex with strangers is dangerous it may be that the person has bad judgement and would not make a good spouse.
I’m sorry, but my past self, back when I was dating, would have remarked “There are people who have sex on a first date?”
There is something I rarely see asked.
Many men judge negatively a woman who has sex on the first date, even if they would have sex on the first date themselves.
But what do women think of men that have sex on the first date? Do they think less of such men? Do women ever have sex on the first date and walk away thinking, “I enjoyed that but I’m not interested in a guy who would sleep with a woman straight away?”
Many men who have sex on the first date want sex. Many women who have sex on the first date want a relationship. Impedance mismatch.
You can have sex on a first date without any disrespect or misogyny, as long as the two of you go to the trouble to have a two-minute conversation about what you’re each wanting to get out of this. If you can’t do that then you should keep it in your pants.
This is honestly the best thread I have seen in a while so I needed to comment. I believe it is all a matter of relationship and connection with the person. I am not virtuous at all when it comes to sex, I have met girls from Tinder, met up with them that night, had sex and dated for ten months before amicably going separate ways. I never thought any less of them and vice versa. I also knew a girl for about ten years before we had sex and started dating, she knew my past and didn’t think anything less of me.
Ones who look for flaws in a person are bound to find some somewhere.
Agreed. In all of these type of threads, posters want to change the thousands of years old stereotype that it is not so bad for a man to sleep around but if a woman does it, she is loose or immoral.
Anytime to try to change the entire world you are usually fighting a losing battle, but the stereotype itself is sort of self-reinforcing. A woman knows that it is culturally passe to sleep with a guy on the first date. If she does, she is bucking cultural norms which is cause for consideration in and of itself.
Note, not cause for concern, but consideration. There remain gender differences regardless of the ceaseless mission of the left to obliterate them.
I feel this attitude, while it exists, is perpetuating a false idea that only men want sex and women only give them sex in exchange for men doing something the women want; sex is a reward for good behavior.
They sense your desperation. When I was married it seemed like women were running down from the hills and flinging themselves at me with offers of wild, pornographic-style sex.
When I got divorced, I thought of meeting some of them. They scattered back into the hills leaving only tumbleweeds in their wake.
When I’m married, I have to do the right thing and turn down advances from beautiful and successful women. When single I couldn’t get laid in a Costa Rican whorehouse with a stack of $100 bills sitting on the table. So is life. 
Certainly there remain stereotypes, prejudice, sexism, and misogyny. I won’t apologize for trying to obliterate them.
the double standard is everywhere. Andrew Dice Clay can get on stage and deliver an hour of raunch and it’s hilarious, yet Amy Schumer makes one moderately-explicit sex joke and everyone gets uncomfortable.
I tend to think that it’s more like when you’re married you can tell yourself “Oh, yeah, she totally wants me, that was totally a pass” because you don’t have to test the hypothesis, as it were. But when you are single, you respond to the ambiguous signal with a signal of your own and often discover it wasn’t a pass at all.
Also, uninterested women are perhaps more diligent to avoid ambiguous gestures that might be misinterpreted by single men.
I have no problem understanding how a person, male of female, can decide they don’t know a person well enough to want to have sex with them. Nothing mysterious there.
What seems confusing to me is that some women seem to have this middle ground. They’re willing to have sex with casual hook-ups and they’re willing to have sex with people they’re in established relationships with. But if a man falls in between these two levels, they decide they shouldn’t have sex with him.
A woman can see a guy in a bar and think “That guy’s decent looking and I’m horny. I think I’ll head over there and see if I can get laid tonight.” So the woman goes over and starts a conversation and they hit it off. But they can hit it off so well that the woman might start thinking “Wow, this is a great guy. I really like him. In fact, I like him so much I no longer want to have sex with him tonight. Instead I think we should start dating and maybe have sex a few weeks from now.” So some women can have this situation where as their emotional connection increases, their willingness to have sex can decrease.
Men aren’t like this. Our emotional interest and our sexual interest are connected in a linear fashion. If you’re a relative stranger, we can want to have sex. If you’re somebody we like, we want to have sex more. If we’re in love with you, we want to have sex even more.
So these two different sets of values can lead to confusion. A woman who’s had one night stands might decide not to have sex with a man she’s met because she thinks he’s better than those men she had one night stands with and she wants a relationship. But if a man knows that the woman has had sex with other men right away and she isn’t willing to have sex with him right away, he’ll conclude the woman is less interested in him than she was in those other men.
I respect that, but my point remains. The fact that you might (and I’m not suggesting you DO) sleep with someone on the first date in an effort to rid the world of the double standard, in its own way speaks about who you are, for good or ill.
IOW, the question in the back of the man’s mind: Why did she sleep with me on the first date knowing that I might think she is loose or immoral, even in these enlightened times we are living?, is a question that survives even if he has himself discarded the old stereotype.
I know you realize you can’t speak on every man’s behalf, so I’ll just leave it at that.
But in your scenario, one person giving away a whole bunch of money is certainly different than two people enjoying a mutually pleasurable time. I don’t think the analogy holds up.
I confess this topic is now of some concern to me, as I am now potentially back in the dating game.
I don’t do sex on the first date for the simple reason that it takes me a long time to trust someone enough to be comfortable with them touching me. Outside of certain formal gestures, such as a handshake, or a light tap on the hand to get my attention if needed, I don’t care to be touched at all by most people. For probably several reasons, I reserve physical touching to a very few people in my life
(One thing I’m grateful to for my current coworkers is that after I returned to work after my husband’s death most of them asked “can I give you a hug?” rather than simply grabbing me. And yeah, I accepted the hugs because I needed lots of reassurance but they let it be my choice.)
So… one date isn’t enough for me to get to know someone enough to be comfortable with a lot of touching, and a lot of touching is sort of necessary to the sex act. And no, sex is not a reward for good behavior. If you aren’t comfortable and enjoying being around me outside of sex then let’s call this whole thing off. I’m not looking for a one night stand. “Friend with benefits” is an option, but it’s can’t be all “benefits” and no “friendship”.
Of course, communicating with people is a great concept. There are women who want sex without strings attached, or minimal strings attached (granted, a lower percentage of women than men). There are those who are looking for marriage and children. There are those looking for companionship. The first couple of dates is where you work out whether or not your plans are compatible.
Not that I’m in any way ready for dating at this point, but I have concerns that the expectations and norms I navigated 30 years ago have changed over time in ways I’m not aware of.
Couple of points:
[ul]
[li]I think men are hard-wired to value fidelity in a woman more than women are to value it in a man, since men can get cuckolded and women cannot. That’s biology/evolution, and I don’t think that’s going to change. (I remember a line from GWTW about how someone was looking for “a good girl to court and a bad girl to have fun with”, and I think a lot of guys are like that.)[/li][li]Men tend to desire sex more than women (also for evolutionary reasons IMHO, as discussed elsewhere on this board). So when it comes to sex, men tend to be the “takers” and women the “givers”. People lose respect for others who “give” up their assets too quickly, but not for people who try to “take” what they can get.[/li][/ul]
Disclaimer: the above does not apply to all men, all women, you, your spouse etc. It’s a generalization.
That’s a just-so story. I could just as easily argue that women are hard-wired to value fidelity more, because they are less able to provide for themselves when pregnant or while they have small children, and they devote more resources per offspring: a man can abandon one set of children and have a reasonable chance of making another set. If a woman gets abandoned and her children starve, even if she lives she will not have time or resources to replace the children so easily.
Infidelity is not abandonment, but it often leads to abandonment.
What is the evidence that this is a biological, rather than a social, construct?
I’m not particularly familiar with this thinking, so I’m not doing anything but guessing, but to the extent anyone does this they might be thinking that for good or ill sex changes things.
Thousands of years of stereotypes, of course!