Not so slippry a slope: Bush has always been the one to blame for our current economic crisis.

Great Debates
1

In an effort to break my very mundane Tuesday, I began reading further into the US debt-ceiling debacle; I really want to understand it much more than I currently do. To me - an NPR fiend - I can listen to both sides on the radio, stay in tune with who is saying what, but I am admittedly not as well informed on the causes of our economic crisis as I’d like to be. Here on the SDMB I’ve noticed a lot of GOPers placing blame squarely on Obama’s shoulders for the current economic crisis - I’ve also noticed [not hard not to] the fox news folks blaming Obama simply for taking office and “screwing everything up”.

Today, I was reading the Washington Post and came cross this graph. It depicts Obama and Bush’s effect on our deficit.

Damn! Hit post before I wanted to!

What’s the debate? I want to talk about why so many blame Obama for the current crisis when it so clearly began with Bush. I’d also like to know what others think is the best plan of action for an antler-locked senate and house? The GOP doesn’t want collapse, [ i don’t think] but they may wish to continue to blame Obama for something they clearly had a hand in causing…so how do you think they will eventually resolve it?

2

Jello wrestling in the reflecting pool?

3

This continuing meme that republicans are responsible for all evil in the world and kill puppies daily and that Obama sits at the right hand of God is getting more and more tiresome. Der will be here in a minute confirming that Bush is indeed Lucifer.

What f’ing difference does it make who happened to be in the White house? Our Congress comprised of both parties voted on this spending. We still owe $46,000 a piece and can’t keep spending like we have it. Other than feeling better hating on the red states, what does this continued vitriol do for us?

4

They’re both to blame. Along with the democratic controlled congress under both administrations. The current majority in the House wasn’t there during Bush’s tenure or the first half of Obama’s administration.

I personally believe that there will be some sort of compromise worked out in the last few days. If the consequences are as dire as Obama painted them last night (I personally don’t believe they are), then he will have no choice but to accept a more heavy spending cut proposal.

5

QFT

6

Hold on a second – go back to that chart shown in the OP.

The wars were both started under Republican majorities (I’m not criticizing, it’s just a fact). The tax cuts were done under Republican majorities with barely any Democratic support. The non-defense discretionary spending is clearly attributable on a 3/4th basis to Republican controlled Congresses. The Medicare bill was enacted in a Republican Congress, but with substantial Democratic support. TARP and the bailouts were done in Democratic Congresses with substantial Republican support.

The way I see it, somewhere around 2/3rd of the Bush “new costs” bar graph is directly attributable to Republican congressional support.

7

Me too. Until the last day or so or hell even the night before both sides will play politics blaming the other side for everything.

Then when they do pass it they will run around claiming how awesome they are and how they only had the peoples best interest at heart instead of the reality of them playing politics to try to get more votes.

8

Can something be called a “meme” if it is put forth only by those who argue against it?

9

In the chart, TARP is a cost tagged to Bush, but the TARP paybacks (which I understand is over 95% paid back) is income credited to Obama.

That doesn’t seem a fair basis of comparison to me.

Also, Bush’s numbers are set in stone for his years in office, while Obama’s numbers are stretch to “projections” through 2017. That also seems unfair.

Did the OP notice those issues at all?

10

Who is blaming them for all the evils in the world? This thread is about the deficit that was clearly a construction of Bush. That is a childish non response.
Fact is he started wars without paying for them. He cut taxes at the same time. It is simple. Cutting taxes and increasing spending will cause a deficit and a treasury drain.
Then he pushed through a huge and expensive drug program . It is very easy to see when your eyes are open.
The bank bailout program was also a Bush program. The Obama works program was a response to the Bush mess.
Obama is responsible for not ending the Bush wars.

11

A standard right wing line. Both parties are to blame. Both parties are just as bad. Both parties are exactly alike. The Republicans are so obviously worthless, so obviously have nothing to offer, so obviously such a disaster for the country that their defenders can’t even begin to defend them, much less come up with reasons to support them. So instead they are reduced to claims that the Democrats are “just as bad” as the Republicans. Every time some new Republican disaster or scandal or atrocity comes along it’s the same thing; “The Democrats are just as bad!”

And yes, the Republicans are mostly at fault for the present situation. They’ve worked hard to create it and worked hard to prevent any attempt to fix it. The Democrat’s fault here is mostly a matter of being spineless, of being unwilling to stand up to the Republicans.

12

I don’t see income listed in the chart. :confused:

13

This story link indicates that many banks that purported to pay off their TARP funds did so by borrowing money from another government program, the Small Business Lending Fund. They didn’t so much pay TARP funds back as just roll them over.

Whether this counts for or against Bush or Obama beats the heck out of me.

14

But even the most cynical gloss would have to admit that this one time, one side is pushing for the same action that a truly disinterested person would do for the good of the nation, even if one assumes that they have only political interests in mind.

15

Even so, TARP represents what 4.4% of Bush’s total contribution to the deficit, according to the chart. Reducing the figure for TARP to $19 billion, as estimated by the CBO, doesn’t reduce the full impact of Bush’s policies on the deficit by all that much.

So, what’s your point?

16

“Many banks.”

Sure, that’s a lot of money. $232 million would keep me in cigars and scotch for a few years, no doubt.

But it’s a drop in the TARP bucket:

That’s May 2010, by the way – over a year ago.

$190 billion doesn’t seem that much more than $232 million, does it?

Let’s try it this way:



190,000,000,000
 -  232,000,000  
--------------------
189,768,000,000

So when “many banks” did this, their repayment was about one one-thousandth of the TARP money. The amount of TARP money repaid without recourse to the Small Business Lending Fund is actually $194 billion, rounded:



194,000,000,000
 -  232,000,000  
--------------------
193,768,000,000

Or, if you prefer, 193 billion, 768 million dollars.

$232 million is nothing in this context.

17

No, I didn’t. However, I also mentioned that I was digging around for more information so I could have more understanding around the subject. So thank you for pointing it out.

18

My point is I noticeded that right away. And since that was misfigured, I am going to assume other things on the chart were also misfigured to convey an incorrect impression.

For example, what about the different standard in holding Bush to the exact figures of his years in office and granting Obama “estimates” out to 2017?

That’s another.

Are you confident that those are the only two such examples, and but for those, the chart is a model of probity and neutral analysis?

19

Both sides are, though in doing so neither of them are willing to recognize that while the objectives they have voiced are necessary, they need to be done at the same time for it to matter.

20

The banks were supposed to kick start the economy be lending , especially to small businesses. They decided not to. Lending dried up while the bankers invested in Tbills. They got a few percent of guaranteed profit because we gave them the money practically free. Then they jacked up credit card rates and increased fees.
The bankers paid us back with our own money.