Not that I doubt what this Naval recruiter is telling me .. but

Factual Questions
21

[QUOTE=astro]
On a side note, I’ve heard that scoring very high on tests that attempt to measure general intelligence will sometimes exclude you from various types of routine jobs like small town police work, truck driver etc., as they feel you would probably get bored and would not be a good long term employment prospect, and investing training etc, in you would not be a good bet.

Can you score so high on the ASVAB that you would be considered unsuited for the military, or is this not an issue?
[/QUOTE]

It’s not an issue.

Realize that there’s a wide range of jobs in the “military.” In the Navy, enlisted jobs range from unskilled deck hand to submarine nuclear reactor operator.

The military wants as many intelligent people as it can get. With respect to the Navy, someone who scored very high on the ASVAB might be steered toward the nuclear power program, or possibly to an officer-accession program.

I consider myself to be fairly intelligent (National Merit Scholar/99th percentile on the SAT), and I was never bored in the Navy.

22

Astro & Robby, I think your missing a point here. The ASVAB isn’t designed to measure intelligence, but aptitude. I’d also like to take exception to the idea that deck hands are unskilled, I know a lot of bos’un mates who would take exception to that statement.
Here’s a breakdown of the Navy’s basic battery:
Navy Line Scores:

GT - General Technical - AR+VE
EL - Electronics - AR+EI+GS+MK
BEE - Basic Electricity and Electronics - AR+GS+2*MK
ENG - Engineering - AI+SI+MK
MEC - Mechanical Maintenance - AR+AI+SI+MC
MEC2 - Mechanical Maintenance 2 - AO+AR+MC
NUC - Nuclear Field - AR+MC+MK+VE
OPS - Operations Specialist - WK, PC, AR, MK, AO
HM - Hospitalman - GS+MK+VE
ADM - Administrative - MK+VE

I do agree w/ Robby that test results can lead to service schools and even officer candidate school.

23

[QUOTE=Loach]
The majority of those that want to go in are disqualified due to medical reasons, problems with their backgrounds or because they are dumb as a box of rocks and can’t pass the ASVAB. I was a walk in recruit and when I took my practice ASVAB the recruiter almost hugged me.
[/QUOTE]

Exactly. When I took the ASVAB as a high school senior, my Army recruiter was very excited about my score.

Then I took my physical. The ever-so-slight curve in my spine immediately disqualified me.

Of course, my ex-Marine dad then suggested that I try the Navy, because “they’ll take anybody.” :stuck_out_tongue:

24

[QUOTE=astro]
Can you score so high on the ASVAB that you would be considered unsuited for the military, or is this not an issue?
[/QUOTE]

I scored very high on the ASVAB and they were delighted. My only problem was that I was 17 and didn’t have a high school diploma, which disqualified me for some things. Still, it enabled my entry into one of the Army’s best technical training programs.

25

[QUOTE=Loach]
SSG Schwartz might be able to give more info but I have dealt with a lot of recruiters in my 19 years in the military. One of their biggest frustrations is not finding people who want to go in, it’s finding qualified people. The majority of those that want to go in are disqualified due to medical reasons, problems with their backgrounds or because they are dumb as a box of rocks and can’t pass the ASVAB. I was a walk in recruit and when I took my practice ASVAB the recruiter almost hugged me.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed, those that actively pursue me, usually have applied to one or more branches and been found disqualified. In my area, mostly for moral reasons. There are also many medical reasons that will disqualify a person.
I scored in the 97th percentile when I took the ASVAB and that in now way limited the jobs I was qualified for, in fact, it added to my options. There are some people who score very high on the ASVAB that want a job that doesn’t require a very high score, mostly because some of the jobs have very quick advancement potential.

What makes my job so challenging, is finding qualified people who want to enlist, who are willing to parse the truth from the propaganda (on both sides) and choose to enlist.

SSG Schwartz

26

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
[…I’d also like to take exception to the idea that deck hands are unskilled, I know a lot of bos’un mates who would take exception to that statement.
[/QUOTE]

Agreed, there are many skilled sailors in Deck Divisions/Departments, especially the Boatswain’s Mates.

However, I was referring to your typical newbie undesignated seaman working for those BMs. The typical undesignated seaman starts off basically unskilled, right? Of course, ideally, they should rapidly gain knowledge and experience.

Anyway, if you compare two sailors reporting to the fleet for the first time, I think you’ll agree there’s a big difference between an undesignated seaman and a nuke ET, for example.

27

Just out of curiousity, what does an “unskilled deck hand” do? Do they wander around the ship with a mop like some sort of glorified janitor or something?

28

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Just out of curiousity, what does an “unskilled deck hand” do? Do they wander around the ship with a mop like some sort of glorified janitor or something?
[/QUOTE]

Chip paint off, wire brush paint off, repaint, start again.

29

[QUOTE=msmith537]
Just out of curiousity, what does an “unskilled deck hand” do? Do they wander around the ship with a mop like some sort of glorified janitor or something?
[/QUOTE]

On one of the specials (Discovery networks show) about one of the newest Nimitz class carriers, they interviewed and followed a few sailors though a deployment. One of them was just that, an “Unskilled deck hand”. He was working just as you describe. Mostly his issues were poor morale, and choices, which were limiting his ability to get a posting to something other than ‘mop duty’, but someone needs to be in charge of cleaning the head. Or painting as A.R. Cane mentions, or any number of tasks that require no special training or skills.

Substitute with the term “Unskilled labor” in the civilian work force. It’s the catch all term. As I understand it, in the Navy/Services, like in civilian life, if you learn something while you’re unskilled, you have an opportunity to use that skill set to get a better position. Rinse & repeat until you die. Smile while you do it, and only gripe upwards.

30

[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
FWIW, the Army’s quota is 2 per recruiter per month. That’s their goal anyway. Most come shy of that. If you can put in two per month, every month, then you are a solid performer who will be well rewarded. Fall short of that and they will be all over your ass constantly and you’ll be working 20 hour shifts cold calling high school kids. . .
[/quote]
This reminds me of a question. When calling those high school kids, are you required to be sure they are 18 first? If not, are you required to have parental consent to contact them?

Every job I’ve ever had has paid a raise every year. I typically get 4% plus whatever increase because of promotions and the like. (Last year my base pay went up 15% plus incentive opportunity nearly quintupled) I also have no college degree.

31

[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
Do private sector jobs get a cost of living raise every year too? I got a 3% raise last month, plus a couple hundred dollar step increase for years in service. I’m pulling in roughly 4800-4900 a month. That’s NOT counting medical and dental benefits.
[/QUOTE]
Plus, if this civilian’s guess is correct, you get free room and board too! (right?)

Of course, there’s always that annoying little “risk of getting shot” clause in the the fine print. This civilian thanks you for your bravery.

32

[QUOTE=Antinor01]
Every job I’ve ever had has paid a raise every year. I typically get 4% plus whatever increase because of promotions and the like. (Last year my base pay went up 15% plus incentive opportunity nearly quintupled) I also have no college degree.
[/QUOTE]
In my IT positions there’s been none of that. Can I ask what field you’re in?

33

[QUOTE=Keeve]
In my IT positions there’s been none of that. Can I ask what field you’re in?
[/QUOTE]

Currently, health insurance sales.

34

[QUOTE=A.R. Cane]
Chip paint off, wire brush paint off, repaint, start again.
[/QUOTE]

As SNL dramatically declared in their fake Navy recruiting ad many years ago, “Port of Call: Bayonne, New Jersey!” Cue the thumping bass beat. :stuck_out_tongue:

Bear_Nenno, my dad still has fond memories of the Munich Oktoberfests when he was in the Army in the mid-1950s.

35

[QUOTE=butler1850]

Substitute with the term “Unskilled labor” in the civilian work force. It’s the catch all term. As I understand it, in the Navy/Services, like in civilian life, if you learn something while you’re unskilled, you have an opportunity to use that skill set to get a better position. Rinse & repeat until you die. Smile while you do it, and only gripe upwards.
[/QUOTE]

I guess I just assumed there weren’t true “unskilled labor” on board a ship and that routine maintanance and cleaning was handled by low-level people who worked as the naval equivalent of plumbers, machinists, HVAC technicians and electricians and whatnot.

36

[QUOTE=SSG Schwartz]
We call them walk-ins, and yes, you do need to contact a recruiter if you are a walk in. The recruiter, usually the station commander, will be the one to schedule the applicant for the testing and screening to determine if the person is qualified for service in the branch he or she chose.
[/QUOTE]

I was the walk-in at my station when I chose to seriously look into enlisting.

The impression I got from my recruiter was that having a viable candidate walk-in was about the same order of magnitude event as winning the daily numbers game.

When I said I wanted to be a deck ape, he was sure I had to be some kind of unplaceable mutant. But he gave me the pre-ASVAB anyways.

Then, for some reason, started to talk to me about the joys of nuclear power…

37

[QUOTE=Elendil’s Heir]
As SNL dramatically declared in their fake Navy recruiting ad many years ago, “Port of Call: Bayonne, New Jersey!” Cue the thumping bass beat. :stuck_out_tongue:
[/QUOTE]
It’s not just a job, it’s $96.78 a week.

38

[QUOTE=msmith537]
I guess I just assumed there weren’t true “unskilled labor” on board a ship and that routine maintanance and cleaning was handled by low-level people who worked as the naval equivalent of plumbers, machinists, HVAC technicians and electricians and whatnot.
[/QUOTE]

Each space (compartment) aboard a ship is assigned to one of the divisions (subdepartments) to take care of.

I was a “Data Systems Technician” (abbreviated DS), a rating which no longer exists. (Merged with ET and FC.) That was the rating trained to repair computers and display terminals (non-firecontrol). I was assigned to a carrier.

My work center (with about a dozen of us E4 to E6 paygrades assigned to it) had (IIRC) 4 compartments assigned to us. We were responsible for the very basic maintenance and appearance of those spaces. We swept them out (jet aircraft seem to create a LOT of heavy black colored dustbunnies aboard ship, and in hangars ashore), waxed the tiled floors, painted them, ensured the screens in the air conditioning units were changed regularly, inspected the damage control fittings.

If something beyond our abilities, say, a warped hatch, was found, we would submit a bit of paper work requesting that the item get serviced. (I forget the name of the paperwork. A “2-kilo”?) Then, this work order/request would go up the “chop chain”, and get assigned to the appropriate department with the talents to fix those things. There indeed are electricians, welders, machinist mates, and so on that are available to do the more specialised work, but they don’t have enough bodies to wander around the ship inspecting each and every light fixture, wall socket, phone jack, and damage control fitting on a regular basis.

I remember the first time I found out that I had to go out and wax the deck. “I joined the NAV to be a computer tech, Dammit! I aint no janitor!” (Heh. Young and full of beans, I was.)

“Well, guess what, shipmate…”

39

[QUOTE=Bear_Nenno]
Oh.. and I actually consider this part a perk. Back in August I was in Germany. I drove–yes drove–to Munich, Prague, Paris, Nurnberg, Neuschwanstein, Flossenburg… did I mention PARIS?! Prague! I got to take weekend getaways to destinations people wait their whole lives to visit. Can’t wait to get back there. I’ll be hitting up Italy, London, Netherlands, Berlin…

Course I love to travel. That might be a burden to other people.

ETA: I forgot to mention Oktoberfest!!
[/QUOTE]

You know, I hafta admit the military doesn’t seem all bad. My brother just got stationed at Hickam AFB here in Hawaii.

The playgrounds are huge and I like the wide-openness of the base “campus”. I see the prices at the Exchange/Commissary and that Brian is a 15-minute walk to work from his free housing, and you know what?

While his pay is significantly less (he’s enlistd), I do admit a little jealousy about living on base.

40

[QUOTE=Broomstick]
Yes, well, trying to sell a job that makes less pay than the private sector, may require extensive travel periods abroad, and has “getting shot” as a real occupational risk IS a bit difficult…
[/QUOTE]

Even the “getting shot at” isn’t much of a risk. My brother does intelligence work, so he has a very small chance of getting shot at. At his tour in Iraq, he was in an air-conditioned bunker in a quiet area all day. A surprisingly small percentage of military folks are trigger pullers.

Jeez, I sound like an advertisement. I guess I really do like how nice Hickam AFB looks…