I was the same way. I would much rather hang around adults than children. At school they had to physically force me to spend time with kids my own age. I hated children then, I hated being a child, and I hate them now.
And I hated being the kid that got dragged to “grown-up” things because my mother didn’t want to leave me with a babysitter or home alone. There was frequently nothing for me to do and I was bored out of my skull.
My reaction would be: “These children are your family. If they’re not welcome, I’m not coming either. So sorry you’ve taken this attitude, I might’ve liked to see you. And introduce my children to their aunts and uncles.”
Any family that excludes large numbers of family members for such spurious reasons is not, IMO, worth the hassle of getting together with. Family means more than blood relations.
belladonna, sometimes for childfree folk to have friendships with the, uh, childhaving (?) people is just so much damn work on our part that we get frustrated and just give up. Not because we’re bad friends or don’t care, simply because it seems like we childfree always have to put out.
Case in point–my wife has a friend named Amy, who we both like very much. She’s witty, intelligent, amusing, and the mother of four children. We haven’t seen her in–oh, it’s had to be at least six months. Not because we don’t want to, simply because it’s impossible. We’ve invited her over repeatedly, WITH her children–but no. We have dogs, and her daughter is afraid of dogs. We have glass tables and bric-a-brac and things that her toddler son may injure himself on. I’ve offered to lock the dogs in the house, and have a picnic outdoors, where the kids will have plenty of room to roam. No–she’ll just have to chase them all over the yard, which isn’t fenced.
Well, okay. We’ll come over to your place. I’m a chain smoker, and smoking is a no-no. Hey–NO problem. Fully respect that. Cigarettes stay in the car. I also curse constantly. Please don’t say that–or that–or that in front of my children. All right, sure thing. Let’s watch a movie! It’s got to be something child-friendly. Sigh. Well, no thanks. I’m not a huge Disney fan. Let’s have dinner! The kids are in a pizza-only stage right now. Well…okay. Oh, and they’ll only eat cheese with anchovies. Well…okay. So the pizza comes. After having pizza tossed around the kitchen accompanied by shrieks for a good thirty minutes, one of us desperately makes suggestions. Let’s go sit in the yard. That way, we can smoke, the kids can play, and we’ll all get some air. Outside, cigarettes lit–two minutes later. “Mommy! Aaron hit me!” “Moooooooooomy! She’s being mean!”
So, do you sort of see where we come from? It’s not at all that we just go “Feh. She has children now, so she can’t be worth going to the trouble.” Not at all. It’s just that it’s so draining, we just give up after awhile.
Again, not saying this is your circumstance. This is just my own experiences with the childfree/childhaving friendship.
Adult don’t need an excuse. They don’t have to explain their choices to anyone if they don’t want to. They are not under obligation. It is their right to miss out on things. And, as painful as it is to be shut out of their lives, that is not your choice to make.
I was childless (not by choice) and I married a widower with three grown children. My four grandchildren are my greatest joy! I’m the sort of grammy who gets in the floor and gets silly.
But that’s me. It’s not for everybody. And it’s not even good for the children to be around adults who do not want them around.
That’s so true Zoe it’s not good for kids to be around certain adults, I have a big beef with some adults who find entertainment at a youngsters expense.
Your grands are blessed to have a grammy like you! I hope I can remain an adult that kids of all ages will feel comfortable around. I would dearly love to grow old and hip, staying connected to the up and coming generations.
As for my P’s 50th, I checked its gonna be at the Florida House B&B, which not only accepts children they accept pets as well. I cannot imagine a more welcoming venue for families. I think I am going to bring the kids, dress em up, work on their manners and let them play minihostess for the dinner. The Grands will love it! They’ll melt uncle scrooges stone heart.
Either that or I’ll bring a mutt with!
I call bullshit. Mr. Kat and I are a family, whether we choose to bring children into it or not. It’s really insulting that people will insist that the only way to be considered a family is to have spawned. GMAFB.:rolleyes:
I was just about to add to this. Mr. Avabeth-to-be and I will be a family from the minute we get married. Children do not make a family, people make a family. That’s one of the main complaints I hear from my child-free friends (I’m not child-free, I do hope to have kids eventually, but I will make a conscious effort not to become a kid-centric parent and have some adamantly child-free friends who I learn from:)) - that they are not called a family. They are a family as much as any mom, dad, and 2.4 kids.
As far as excluding children, you know, sometimes it’s okay to leave the kids at home. I don’t understand parents who find it necessary to drag a child everywhere, especially somewhere that they’ll be bored. I love kids, I love my friends’ kids, but there are just places that children aren’t appropriate. Children do not need to go everywhere. And while I may not have kids, I think that the best thing a child can have is to know that their parents are madly in love and put their marriage first, and I hope to have my children grow up with that.
Ava
I was just about to add to this. Mr. Avabeth-to-be and I will be a family from the minute we get married. Children do not make a family, people make a family. That’s one of the main complaints I hear from my child-free friends (I’m not child-free, I do hope to have kids eventually, but I will make a conscious effort not to become a kid-centric parent and have some adamantly child-free friends who I learn from:)) - that they are not called a family. They are a family as much as any mom, dad, and 2.4 kids.
As far as excluding children, you know, sometimes it’s okay to leave the kids at home. I don’t understand parents who find it necessary to drag a child everywhere, especially somewhere that they’ll be bored. I love kids, I love my friends’ kids, but there are just places that children aren’t appropriate. Children do not need to go everywhere. And while I may not have kids, I think that the best thing a child can have is to know that their parents are madly in love and put their marriage first, and I hope to have my children grow up with that.
Ava
Semantics! I’m not even married and I’m part of a family. Parents + kids are not the only permutation of family. My own includes sisters, grandparents, close friends, cats, and a gerbil.
Not necessarily. I can do things without my S.O. and he can do things without me. Our social lives don’t have to be joined at the hip. Just as husbands, wives, boyfriends, and girlfriends can have separate friends, so can spouses. And parents. If someone consistently invites you sans offspring to events, that is a hint that perhaps they do not wish to be around offspring. If this bothers you, why not ask them about it in a polite, non-confrontational manner? Most of the problems in this world could be solved if people just asked each other why politely.
I certainly hope so! I’d be surprised if your children were, say, dust mites. That would be unexpected. To say the least.
This has already been hashed out. I won’t add to it in the interest of giving the dead horse some respite before the beatings begin.
Who says that nowadays? Usually what I hear is something along the lines of gently guiding the child away from distracting adults having adult conversations. Granted, the gentleness with which the child is guided away decreases sharply with the number of interruptions, but I have never heard anyone under the age of 80 say “seen and not heard.”
Oooookaaaaaay. :dubious:
[QUOTE]
These are human beings, and if you have prejudice towards them, you’ll be wise to keep it to your damn self.
[QUOTE]
Teach your damn kids some manners and we’ll have no problems.
IMHO to say that you don’t like being around children and/or you don’t want to have children is understandable but to say that you “detest” or “hate” them indicates to me, that you have serious unresolved issue(s) - parental relationship issues, sibling relationship issues, socialising issues, self-concept/self-esteem issues or something similar?
We’ve never studied “not liking children” as a disorder or “issue” in any of my psych classes.
In other words, forcing your children on a bunch of people who specifically don’t want kids around, huh? How vindictive of you.
Put me in the camp who can’t stand kids. Don’t want any, don’t want to be around them, don’t want to see them, hear their whiny, noisy tantrums, smell them, or know they even exist until they’re adults.
Idiotic question:
If children aren’t exposed to social situations, how are they to learn social behavior? Obviously, they shouldn’t go certain places, but how would they learn to control themselves in public if they’re never in public?
Robin
Concur. Some of the comments about kids in this thread are downright nasty. Don’t really enjoy being around kids 24/7? Fine, don’t have them (and there’s actually a thread down the page a bit for just your type). But to claim that kids are, without exception,…
“Whiney, noisy, smelly”, “unwelcome”, “hated”, and “of no benefit” smacks of elitism and, frankly, makes me think those of you with those attitudes probably have very little appreciation for the simple joys that can make kids so cool sometimes. I’m not a huge fan of children across the board, except for my own of course. But I can still interact with someone elses child for five or ten minutes without sneering at them as if they’re dogshit on the bottom of my shoe. To claim that all kids, at all times, are simply unworthy of your time or effort seems closeminded, judgemental, and–well–childish.
And QGG–you actually sound like exactly the kind of friend kids with parents need. Flexible, willing to negotiate, and understanding. It sounds like your mommy friend is the one with the issues. Yes, you should accomodate your children’s needs when necessary; but it sounds like she’s taking that a bit too far–which will probably not be to their benefit later in life.
You know, I like kids, but I’m not necessarily inviting someone’s kids if I invite them someplace.
If I’m inviting someone to an R-rated movie, I don’t expect them to bring their 5-year-old.
If I’m throwing a party I expect to last beyond midnight, I don’t expect children. Hell, if there’s alcohol present (outside of the requisite beer-at-the-barbecue), I don’t expect children.
Not to mention the fact that my house is not child-proofed, and to MAKE it child-proofed would take, literally, hours. Not because it’s messy, but because I have uncovered outlets I’d need to find caps for, sharp objects stored within easy grabbing reach, racks of dishes that can be easily pulled onto someone’s head, hazardous chemicals under the sink…I am not going to redecorate for someone’s kids.
Despite that, if someone has a well-behaved child (and by well-behaved I don’t mean “never cries” or “sits in one spot all day long and plays with the carpet”…I mean a kid that will stop screaming when told, does not pitch fits or throw tantrums when they don’t get what they want…
I’ve had to deal with a little girl who, as adorable and sweet and lovely as she was, had poor hearing and therefore screamed in this amazingly dog-killing high-pitched wail for, er, no reason. I’ve had to deal with the little boy who slaps or pinches women – surprisingly hard – on the bottom and runs away howling with laughter. I’ve dealt with the little girl who, when she is not the center of attention or (God forbid) has not gotten what she wants, is being put to bed at a reasonable hour, or cannot stay up and play with the grownups, pitches an immense fit, states that her father doesn’t love her, and runs wailing out the door.
I will tolerate all this when I go to someone else’s house, but I’ll be damned if I’m going to have it in mine. I was brought up properly, and I cannot and will not parent other peoples’ children. I threw a tantrum once in my life before discovering that this didn’t work. I begged for toys a few times before discovering that, while the first “No” might be negotiable with time, it was certainly not negotiable with “Pleeeeeease? You never get me ANYTHING!”
I don’t think anyone here is saying children should be locked in the attic until they’re eighteen. People who don’t like children are in the vast minority. I can’t believe parents have that much trouble finding venues where their children are welcome. Even the most anti-child poster here isn’t saying, “No children in public, ever,” they’re just saying, “No children around me, please.”
belladonna: I’m not going to say that kids are always whiney, smelly, noisey, etc. I know they aren’t all like that all the time. But when you talk about the “simple joys that make kids so cool”? That’s precisely the stuff I don’t like about children. What other people consider charming, I find grating. I can’t stand interacting even with children who are perfectly well behaved. I sorry you think this makes me mentally deficent, but there it is. Can’t help how I feel about kids, so I try to limit my contact with them so as not to damage their delicate little psyches. Or my delicate little psyche, for that matter.
And another thing: Is it coincidental that most (all) people who detest kids talk about how they “were brought up properly”, then go on to describe a strictness that would’ve made Michael Jackson’s father proud? Let me give you a clue: If you’ve never been a parent, and claim to dislike children, then keep your damn parenting opinions to yourself.
I do hope you’re not talking to me, Bill H. My parents were strict, but not as bad as you’re insinuating. Unless you’re of the opinion that what I described above was abusive…
And I’ve never been a parent, and I quite like children, but I don’t give parenting advice to parents. But I’ll be damned if I “keep my opinions to myself” on an online forum. If I did that, I wouldn’t be here.
Me? Strict upbringing? Hardly. I got spanked a few time when I was very small, but other than that, my parents hardly ever disciplined me at all. Never got grounded, never had my allowance taken away, never forbidden from hanging out with people*, never denied permission to do pretty much anything. My parents were extremely permissive. In high school, my mom actually encouraged me to stay out until the wee hours. She was (rightly) concerned about my lack of a social life. I should also note that, lest you take this as an example of the opposite extreme, I never got in trouble, got decent-to-good grades in school, and was generally an all-around okay kid, as far as kids go.
And I take exception to the idea that I can’t have an opinion on parenting unless I am a parent. I’m not a muscian, but I still have opinions on music. I’m not a politicion, but I still have opinions on politics. I’m not a soldier, but I still had opinions on the Iraqi war. I don’t see why parenting is any different.
*Actually, that’s not entirely true. There was one guy my parents forbade me from hanging out with, and refused to let into the house. I ignored them, became good friends with the guy, and was eventually able to so alter their opinion of him that my dad ended up offering him a job.