Notorious movies: those that deserve the rep, and those that don't

Yes — I’m talking about Those Movies. The ones where people get a gleam in the eye when they say: “Have you seen this?” Which isn’t to say that they’ve seen it, either, necessarily; you’ve simply heard them mentioned, or discussed briefly, in hushed tones, with a feeling similar to but not quite the same as awe. The sense of the whispering is to ask, have you seen it, and can you take it? Maybe it’s extreme violence, maybe it’s extreme sex, maybe it’s just a general tone of fucked-up-ness.

And occasionally, you get a chance to check one out. You see it on the shelf of the video store, or at a friend’s house; you pick it up; your imagination swirls with the second-hand stories you’ve heard, and the possibilities of the film; and when you bring it to the counter, or ask your friend, you get The Look. The expression that says: are you sure you want to try this? Really?

And then you actually watch it, and usually, it sucks. It doesn’t measure up. Your expectations are too high, you want to have your ass kicked, and the movie falls short. And while you really wanted to be assaulted by the movie, it just kind of takes a few half-hearted pokes, and you’re disappointed.

Sometimes, though: holy crap.

This is the thread for people who have actually seen these movies to tell the rest of us whether or not they’re worth it.

I’ll start off with a couple of the big ones.

Faces of Death. Anthologies of compiled clips. Occasionally shocking and real moments, like Budd Dwyer’s on-camera suicide (which of course is now available on youtube); some generic documentary stuff, like autopsies and slaughterhouses; and some badly staged fake scenes, like the monkey-brains thing. Amateurish, though occasionally hallucinatory when the library music on the soundtrack becomes ridiculously inappropriate. Mostly significant for its historical value, as it identified a demand and set a trend that allowed caught-on-camera clip shows to proliferate on TV (car crashes, animal attacks, and such), though the 1978 original is definitely showing its age. Verdict: Weak; skip it unless you’re a completist or a history buff.

Cannibal Holocaust. An expedition into cannibal country seeks clues about the disappearance of a previous group of student filmmakers; their lost film canisters are recovered and their fate is revealed. There’s a whole seething subgenre of these jungle-trek gutmuchers, and this one is generally regarded as the top of the heap — with good reason. While the gore and violent misogyny is pretty much the same as others of its ilk, and while one kill-and-disembowel-an-animal-on-camera scene is more or less the same as any other, there’s a unique feeling of bleakness in virtually every frame of this film that sets it apart. Other movies of this type revel joyously in the gore and sleaze, but Cannibal Holocaust is grim, determined in its purpose, with a sense of existential dread that really gets under your skin in a way the other movies don’t. Plus, for the kind of movie it is, it’s technically really well made, adding to the atmosphere. Verdict: Twenty years old, Cannibal Holocaust still packs a serious punch.

Caligula. Malcolm McDowell! John Gielgud! Peter O’Toole! Hardcore porn! Decapitations! Sleaze galore! And yet… so incredibly, incredibly boring. One of the most notorious movies ever, in terms of the whispered reputation, and one of the biggest disappointments when you finally get around to seeing it. Given everything that happens in the film, and given the caliber of actor (usually) involved in the material onscreen, it’s mystifying why the actual experience of watching the film should be so dull. And yet, the movie sits almost inert, rousing occasionally to drag itself into another set piece, and you look at your watch and are shocked to see that only ten minutes have passed since the last time you looked. Probably the single worst movie in terms of a yawning chasm between expectations based on thrilling reputation and actual viewing experience. Verdict: Tedious beyond belief. I keep telling people not to bother, but they just have to see for themselves. You will too, probably.

I Spit On Your Grave. Woman goes into the country to do some writing and meets the locals. One of them misinterprets her behavior as flirting, so he brings his friends and they rape her for a solid half-hour of screentime. After she recovers, she takes brutal revenge on them, one by one. Roll credits. Ineptly made, with clumsy writing, photography, and (except for Camille Keaton in the central role) performed. The fact that the gang-rape goes on, and on, and on, though, gives it a certain dubious distinction, and yes, it’s as horrifying as it sounds. (A similar scene in the French film Baise-Moi is weak by comparison.) Not sleazy, exactly, but definitely unafraid of covering itself in moral grime. Verdict: A mixed bag. Hard to stomach, certainly, but ultimately, sort of pointless. Skip it unless you’re working through a revenge-movie checklist.

Meet the Feebles. Dude. Muppets having sex and shooting each other in the head. And from the Oscar-winning director of Lord of the Rings no less. Verdict: A-Plus, a must-see. Will scar you, in a good way. :slight_smile:

I Am Curious (Yellow). An extremely boring and dated film with the most underwhelming sex scene in history. The short version: she kisses his limp dick. The End.

The Star Wars Holiday Special. Excruciatingly awful, but worthy of seeing at least once. Mark Hamill wearing a pound of makeup, Harrison Ford looking like he can’t wait to get the hell out of there, Chewbacca’s kid watching Dyan Cannon and, um, masturbating I guess, Carrie Fisher looking like she pounded down some rails three seconds before they rolled the camera, Harvey Corman and Bea Arthur delivering what should have been career-ending performances, and a very dated and rather pathetic Boba Fett cartoon…do yourself a favor and check it out. Once.

Game Of Death. Bruce Lee climbs up the stairs of a dojo to fight Kareem Abdul Jabar. I guess I’m glad I saw it. The only thing I remember is Kareem’s large footprint on Bruce Lee’s chest.

Paris Hilton’s Sex Video. Watch Paris blow a guy and then get taken from behind. Through night-vision goggles.

Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson. Watch Tommy Lee’s surprisingly thin pecker poke Pamela Anderson in a disinterested manner.

Ishtaramusing and underrated comedy.

House of the Dead- The greatest zombie film based on a video game ever. Most people just hate it. I love it because it is so awful. A 12 minute shoot out with the zombies, it takes place at a rave … in the woods… on an island…during the day… screen shots from the game spliced in as transisitions.

Freddy Got Fingered- Except for a couple of comic missteps, I think this movie is more than just a surreal f-you to the audience. I think its smart and funny send up of the kind of movie that comedians usually make for their first big film.

I once saw Nekromantik 2. As you can guess, it’s a German sex-necrophilia-murder flick. Pretty gory, and the original Nekromantik was controversial, and banned in England.

Verdict: Not badly made, and it didn’t really pull any punches with the necrophilia-fu, but…it’s boring. Really boring. Actually, it was so boring, it was relaxing. I was recovering from a flu when I got this from Netflix, and I caught up on some much needed sleep trying to watch it. The “Philip Glass meets Gary Larson” soundtrack probably helped.

So, if you get this one, don’t watch it at night…because you’ll find yourself waking up in the morning, having caught maybe ten minutes of film, before being lulled to a gentle, dream-filled sleep by the pleasant music and absolute lack of anything scary.

YES!

FGF is a masterpiece - I hate it when people compare it to frat house movies like American Pie just because it’s “gross.” There’s more than one way to be gross in a movie. FGF is so over the top, it’s in a completely different league. It’s way more than just a sick-joke movie, great in all the ways that Me, Myself and Irene is also great - it combines absurd scenarios and sexual misadventures with truly sympathetic characters. I think Gordon (Tom Green’s character) is a great portrayal of a slacker who’s afraid of growing up - I know guys like this, who are almost 30 and still living at home, and usually it is because of poor parenting - which is parodied in the movie, but still holds some truth. Rip Torn has a really, really great role here, too. The whole movie is great but Torn’s acting takes the cake. I can hardly think of another comedy that makes me laugh as hard as this one.

My nomination: The Brown Bunny. This movie was written, starred in, shot, scored, and directed by one man - Vincent Gallo. Few other indie filmmakers can pull off a one-man show like this. The blowjob scene at the end? Kudos to Gallo for pushing the envelope of a hypocritical film culture that’s simulntaneously obsessed and repulsed by sexuality. Pointless? Self-aggrandizing? So what - he is showing a sexual act that 99% of all people have engaged in, and if they haven’t, there’s something wrong with them. People like to suck dicks, and people like to have their dicks sucked. Oral sex, as well as any other kind of sex, is part of life. It’s a way more common part of most lives than the average content of a Hollywood movie. Why not show it? Some call Gallo a provacateur trying to shock people. I personally admire his attitude.

Bunny has an interesting story and a good portrayal of a sexually and emotionally stunted man - not something you often see in movies. Bud Clay is a contradictory character. A pro motorcycle racer, he drives his van across the country in search of his lost love. But he is a weak man, an insecure and disturbed man, who has an empty and meaningless life. The final scene of the movie, in which the fate of his former lover is revealed to him, is highly dramatic and touching.

I Spit on Your Grave: I found it very interesting, one of my wife’s favorite flicks. Although the rape scene can throw you off, because just when she thinks she’s safe, more rapin’. Worth it.

Irreversible: Brilliant. A movie that goes in reverse. Shows a scene that happens at the end of the story arc, then shows you what happened before that, then what happened before that. Violent and long rape scene. Worth it.

Audition: Japanese Horror by Takashi Miike. It ends with someone getting mutilated with piano wire. Worth it.

Ichi the Killer: Another Japanese horror by Miike. Tongue cutting, guys being tortured with frying grease. Worth it.

Old Boy: Korean revenge drama. Tongue cutting once again. Guy being tortured by having his teeth removed with the claw of a hammer. Worth it.

Battle Royale: Japanese high school class is dropped on an island to play a game. Last person standing gets to live. Interesting to see how all the different personality archetypes handle the situation. Worth it.

Three Extremes: Three horror vignettes by Miike, Chan wook Park who did Old Boy and a Chinese director by the name of Fruit Chan. Fruit Chans story, Dumplings, was the best. Worth it.

I would like to hear a Doper’s review of Salo

Irreversible is a good choice. Lots of people got physically sick during the early scenes in the Rectum, but I thought the 10-minute rape scene was one of the hardest things to sit through, well, ever. It’s just so brutal and hopeless and unending. The film overall is very, very good, though.

On the other hand, apparently Funny Games really freaks people out, but I was bored. It quickly became apparent that a) everyone was doomed and b) I was supposed to feel guilty about my interest in watching a bunch of doomed characters. Instead I just felt impatient – yes, yes, I’m such a sadist, just get on with it already. That said, the acting is very naturalistic and wrenching, so if, unlike me, you can’t divorce the nudge-nudge artificiality of the situation from the character’s point of view, it’s pretty harrowing. Worth seeing, but I’m not sold on Haneke the way some cinema enthusiasts are.

Man Bites Dog: Another brilliant French film. A documentary crew is doing a story on a serial killer. They follow him around documenting everything he does, but eventually they start getting dragged in. Worth it, and funny.

Henry: Portrait of a Serial Killer: Very disturbing, but worth it.

Dumplings is also available in a longer (possibly feature length) version on DVD. I obviously haven’t seen it yet, but if someone wants to, it’s out there.

I was rather unimpressed by Old Boy except for the amazing hallway fight with the thugs. That fight is probably one of the top 10 fight scenes of all time.

There was a documentary released around aught-2000 or so that restored about a half-hour of lost Bruce footage to the final scenes of Game of Death. It was incredible! Had this movie been completed as intended, it would have been Bruce’s greatest.

I submit Texas Chainsaw Massacre. Everyone’s imagination and expectation regarding the blood and mayhem is far greater than the movie really delivers. Minimal blood or gore, scenes cut away before anything truly gruesome happens.

Footloose is remembered as a musically rebellious stick-it-to-the-man anthem packed to the gills with coolness. I watched it in cringing embarrassment recently, it is ponderous, silly, and a fashion disaster. The dancing isn’t even really that good, just a bunch of silhouetted gymnastics in a factory.

archmichael covered most of the ones I came in to suggest. I’d tack on Visitor Q (another Miike) and Suicide Club, as well. Both worth it, in my opinion.

Two that are notorious for ineptitudelyness: Wizard of Gore and Plan 9

So, somebody tell me if Last Tango in Paris is worth Netflixing?

Actually, it is remembered for being ponderous, silly, cringeingly emabarassing, with bad hair and really goofy dancing.

How about Dressed to Kill, a politically incorrect thriller featuring Angie Dickinson masturbating in the shower? The sequence is still pretty daring compared to mainstream movies today, but chances are you’ve seen some independent film that’s had racier stuff.

Just to interject a meaningless point into the I Spit On Your Grave discussion: The woman pictured on the cover of the reissue is the wife of one of my closest friends.

We’ve had a lot of fun with that one over the years.

When we rewatched this, I remember mentioning to my wife that the plot would make a great Bollywood flick.

Freaks - a film from the 1930s starring actual circus sideshow performers. The plot is marginal and the movie overall is quite boring, but at 64 minute running time the film is worth watching for the same reasons you would go to a circus sideshow and watch the people there.

A few weeks ago, I watched Napoleon Dynamite. I don’t understand how this got to be a cult film. If I really wanted to exaggerate, I’d call it “understated” and maybe “wry.” No, that’s too generous. It has the glories of limp dialogue, deadpan acting, and a plot that goes nowhere.

A socially inept teenager, Napoleon picks his only friend and his squeeze because they are the only ones who won’t run away from him. He comes from a disgusting family life. His creepy “uncle” sabotages his life, so he beats him up. Triumph? No. The story winds down to a school election. Napoleon’s pal Pedro falls flat, missing every chance to be funny. Pedro loses, and he doesn’t care. Napoleon gets the boring girl, and he doesn’t care. I watched the movie, and I don’t care.