Numb and devestated and need opinions (long, sorry.)

In My Humble Opinion
1

I’ll try to keep this as short as possible. If ever there was a time when I needed clear, honest opinions, this is it.

Put bluntly, I just got a knife shoved right in my back, hard, from a totally unexpected direction. It’s a work thing. I’m a boss–dire category–but generally accept the various pitfalls. Bitching about bosses is okay; it lets off steam and I’ve sure done my share. I accepted a long time ago that you can’t make everyone happy and even the simplest things can be “spun” for the worse, much less honest human mistakes. It all comes with the territory.

But someone I promoted, trusted and encouraged just turned on me worse than I’d ever imagined possible. In fairness, she’s young, very emotional and very ambitious. She has great potential but hasn’t learned self-control yet. In work terms, she was given the sky in terms of possibilities and support. Unfortunately she wants to be the POWER and the IDEA person; follow through bores her because it’s frustrating. We were trying to help her learn but she’s very self-willed (strength and weakness).

Unfortunately frustration got the better of her. She’s decided she’s promised a better position locally. (It hasn’t even been advertised yet, she doesn’t remotely meet the minimum qualifications and she doesn’t stand an ice cube’s chance in hell of getting it.) Basically she got cocky, decided she could safely blow off her job and pay off some perceived old scores at the same time. She’s loudly telling all and sundry that her frustrations are due to my being incompetent and a drunk.

Neither are true. I just pulled off a major funding coup and finished several complex projects. I drink sparingly at most and never remotely near work times. Maybe pure shock is lending paranoia. And maybe surviving and divorcing an alcholic just compounds the fracture. My work record is great but how do you prove a negative, especially when it comes from a supposedly trusted source?

I’m afraid that some people, eager to believe the worst, will actually listen and wonder. (It happens with drunks, vide the Ex.) And I don’t know how to handle her. This one has me rocked clean off balance. What she did was insanely, stupidly wrong, even if she was just reactively shooting from the hip–as usual. Somehow I have to stuff the fury and disbelief aside and be fair as well as helpful to her–but I haven’t the faintest idea WHAT to do or how to do it.

Please–any opinions welcome.

Badly shaken,
Veb

2

I guess the standard line here is:
Can you approach her? Is the dynamic such that this isn’t an option anymore?
If you can talk to her, I’d get her to explain herself one on one then try to resolve it on those terms. IF that isn’t an option, are there Higher-Ups, or are you as hig up as it goes? if there are Higher-ups, perhaps you could all have a little conference and air your differences in front of one or a couple of them, and see what sticks.

Short of these things, a couple of other options are:

make sure that your associates know the whole story, and find some solace and security in the fact that the girl is probably as transparent to them as she is too you and will have to learn some of these valuable lessons the HARD way. Serenity is key should this be determinied to be something out of your power to change.

the other option is a cage match.

CJ

I feel for you btw…

3

I’ve been a boss several times, and now prefer not to be because trusted work friends do tend to turn on you unexpectedly. Rule 1: NEVER make real good friends of employees, especially those eager for advancement.

If you can verify that she is spreading untrue rumors, like getting a witness or two, then inform your superior and provide the proof. Once, when young and stupid, feeling far too secure in my position, I spread negative opinions of my boss and within short order, was canned.

You can also take her to court for slander.

Confrontation in private is best, at first, to ask her about these rumors and to order her to stop. Failing that, then a public confrontation is good. I fired a guy for walking around calling me a dipshit and mentioning how I was too lazy to do my own work. He demanded his final pay check right then, claiming that’s what the law said. I suggested he leave right then, or I’d have him arrested for trespassing. I mailed his check to him later.

Fire her. There’s always a reason ranging from spreading rumors, to insubordination, to insufficient work. Just make sure you can prove it.

Suspend her without pay for spreading rumors.

Demote her. I once switched a mouthy worker from his cushy position to one of unpleasant tasks and kept him there until he resigned.

Never, ever be real friendly with staff. Never really trust staff because, as I found out, loyalty means nothing, no matter how much you help them out and all they need to do is get pissed off at you once, and they’ll turn on you.

I used to cash employee paychecks off of my accounts for employees who had no local banks and several still turned on me later.

So, I’ll rise to position of manager, but never the main boss again. For me, it’s not worth the back stabbing.

4

TVeblen, Lady, don’t DO that to me, I was near shaking for the next couple paragraphs 'caus I took that literally! I was waiting for the knifing part and the following emergency room visit.

If this is someone you directly supervise, the best advice I would have is to 1) document, as clearly as possible, what was said, where it was said and to whom. 2) take this documentation to your boss, and 3) take this to HR or the equivalent.

Your profile says that you are a librarian, if that makes you a government employee is there a greivance board you also need to make sure receives documentation about this?

From your description of the young lady it sounds like she needs some counselling, but it won’t do any good unless she arrives at the same conclusion.

It sounds like you are taking this especially hard because it feels like a betrayal, and if this is someone you’ve been trying to nurture and grow it certainly may be, but try and distance yourself from that while you’re doing the documentation.

Do not bury that part of it. Let it out and voice it here, at home, wherever you need to. This sounds like it is pretty traumatic for you and you shouldn’t shut that off.

-Doug

5

And because I forgot to put it in my last post…

{{{{{{{{{{Veb}}}}}}}}}}}

6

Ever had one of those lame ‘Dealing with Gen-Xers’ seminars offered at your firm? She sounds like one of 'em and there are methods of dealing with that mindset(Gen-Y is close behind). Take the class next time it’s offered. I’m partial to Gen-X (my daughter is one) so this is obviously a sweeping generalization, but she seems to epitomize what can go wrong with the age group.

She probably graduated from college, for chrissakes, and with that BA is entitled to everything you’ve worked for. Never mind that you graduated before grade inflation, she got her degree from the University of Phoenix and only had to go for eighteen months! So there! Wait until she gets her MBA off the internet. They’re bossy and selfish but they usually fade away. At the next job she’ll term the one she had at your firm as a ‘learning experience’ and in time will be a drone like the rest of us.

Don’t take it personally - you’re not a bad manager, you’ve just got a bad employee.

7

Veb, I recognized more of myself (5 years ago) in this girl than I’d like to. Here’s my recommendation:

  1. Document, as much as possible, the rumors she’s spread and things she’s done. How did you hear about them?

  2. Bring out her performance reviews, if you have them on file.

  3. Schedule a talk with her. In this talk you want to cover:

a) Her interest and chances of getting the new position. Explain, gently, why you think that she is not ready.

b) Your concerns about her performance, follow-through abilities, attitude, etc. That she needs to work on these things to convince you that she’s ready for something more.

c) Bring up your concerns about the rumors. Basically, you want to relay them back to her, and force her to explain herself. Ask her point blank to verify whether she said these things. Ask her “Do you really think that I’m incompetent? Where would you get the idea that I’m an alcoholic? What did you think you would gain by saying these things about me? Did you stop to think about how people would react?”

Document everything. Take it to HR if necessary.

I don’t know whether you could ever want to work with her again. It sounds like she has some serious emotional problems - we sometimes lash out at the people we feel safest around. Encourage her to get counseling?

8

Thanks for the input, folks. (FERVENT thanks!)

Just for clarification…everybody answers to somebody. In my case, I’m “top dog” in my agency. That’s part of the problem. I answer in turn to multiple boards (elected and appointed) and byzantine levels of governmental bureaucracy. Most of 'em haven’t the slightest clue what I actually do; nature of the beast.

Therein lies the danger. It’s all impressionistic. The only news wanted is good news and photo ops, and even baseless gossip can do irremediable damage. Yesterday’s achievements count for diddly if mud hits the fan. Sure there are laws that apply–but invoking them can do more damage than good. I haven’t taken to HR because in hopes of not lending credibility–which may be a mistake. I just don’t know.

FWIW, this woman is not and never has been a friend. (I have a few but they’re few and time-proven.) She’s someone whose professional growth I’d tried to nurture. Guess it’s all tied to personal integrity, etc. anyway.

I don’t WANT to be cynical. I WANT to believe that reputation and track record count for something. But I’m cold scared-to-the-bone that they might not be enough. Worse, I’m ratled how to somehow salvage anything.

This woman has already, with no action on my part, damaged her own professional reputation VERY badly, perhaps hopelessly. What a waste. She hurled a big rock into a tranquil pond without calculating waves. Stupid, stupid, stupid. But it doesn’t absolve me of the responsibility to somehow handle it.

Veb

9

I have just one bit of advice to add to the excellent replies you have gotten. Is it possible/feasible for you to have someone else present when you talk with her? When I taught at Quaker college, we often had someone function as an observer when there were tension-filled meetings that might be misunderstood or misperceived. Havng someone there would help keep her honest about what was said in the meeting and as she does not seem to respect the truth overly much, that might be a protection for you. Don’t know if this is possible in your work setting, however.

In any case, good luck and sympathy, Veb. I am so sorry she is doing this to you.

10

I don’t have anything useful to add, Veb, I just wanted to send you a hug and plenty of positive thoughts. Sometimes I am totally amazed by how awful people can be.

((((((((Veb))))))))

And I am saying a prayer or two for you, as well.

Cheri

11

Veb,
I’m brand-new at the boss thing myself, but one piece of advice that my boss gave me when I took this job is:

“Fenris, while you don’t want to run to HR every time there’s a problem, if it’s serious, GO TO HR and GO FAST! The first person to HR usually wins.”

Right now, as far as the company’s concerned, either she’s spreading nasty, malicious rumors or you’re a drunk. Go to HR and go on the offensive: she’s slandering you, she’s impuning your reputation and, by extension, the company’s.
Make sure your version gets into official company documents before her version does! Make sure your tone is similar to your OP’s: Hurt and sad that a promising young employee is throwing away her career by making obvious lies about her supervisor. And Brynda’s completely right: Ask someone from HR (or some other department) to be there when you confront her. DO not do it with just the two of you!

I rarely do this, but

{{{{{VEB}}}}} <-The bolded ones are pats on the back!;))

Fenris

12

All I can add is what my Grandmother told me once, “Live so that no one will believe it.”
I’m pretty sure that your job couldn’t be done at all by some one who is a practising alcoholic. Surely even the casual observer can see that?
And meet with her, and a witness.

13

Not long ago I went through a similar situation, as did they other 4 people in my division. An anonymous letter was sent in to the “ethics team”. (I was working for the government at the time, so I’ll try and make some of the terms understandable to all). The letter accused each of us as having uncontrollable drinking problems, being incompetent in our jobs, routinely exposing ourselves in public, going golfing during working ours without logging vacation time, among other things. A full “legal investigation” was conducted.

It was irrelevant where the letter was mailed from, that it was anonymous, etc. This is, btw, a legal thing in the government. It was up to each of us to disprove each allegation. How can you prove that you didn’t expose yourelf in a hotel lobby, or weren’t drunk on the job one day six months ago, or that you know your job when the person asking you to prove that you do, doesn’t have the slightest concept of what your job is?

In the end, it was all thrown out only because one of the people accused of the “drinking problem” was a neighbor of one of the investigators, who knew that this guy was a recovering alky and hadn’t touched alcohol for 10 years.

Even though it was thrown out, however, a letter of reprimand was given to each of us on the basis that we “obviously did something to warrant such allegations” even though proof cannot be provided, and in light of the fact that we couldn’t disprove anything. However, it was eventually found out who wrote the letter, and she was demoted and reassigned “due to funding requirements”.

By the way, that was the final flame of my already extreme burnout on that job, and I quit the government two weeks later, and moved to where we are now.

In the civilian world, I would go with what the others have stated. Go to your bosses and explain what is happening, and get their horsepower behind you. If you are Da Boss, I’d get rid of her. If it comes to a court, the burden of proof will be on her, unlike it is with the government.

14

TVeblen, in response to this

Oh, no you most certainly do NOT. No fairness at all, dear, this kid didn’t make an honest mistake, she made a calculated move, and she needs to pay the price.

I agree with many things stated by the folks posting here - my order of business would be:
Talk to HR, making sure they understand that the minimum outcome would be a bad review for her - done right now and the maximum outcome would be termination, again, right now.

Prepare a very unfavorable review, and give it to her with an HR person in attendance. Include the specifics of this event. Then either put her on probation or terminate her. I see no hope of “turning her around” and anything less than drastic action will convince her that she’s got you under her thumb. Don’t wait for her to do this again.

If you have to keep her, I liked the suggestion of re-assignment of tasks. Let her do the dusting.

Best wishes to you,

M

15

was going to add my $0.08 (adjusted for inflation), but I see that in particular mags & Fenris beat me to it.

one other thing - is it remotely possible that the person who told you isn’t being truthful or did it come from multiple sources.

The “incompetent” part of her rant, that would be purely opinion, but the ‘drunk’ is slanderous and particularly hurtful to some one who was married to one. Any chance she knew that? Nasty, and frankly, I disagree - it’s easy to disprove. She’s the one who would have to come up with evidence.

Any chance you can confront her with some one else in the room (for your protection)?

my heartfelt sympathies to you.

and, another word of caution from some one who has dealt with pathological liars for a living - keep in mind there are some people who are very convincing in their lies.

The other thing that I wanted to say to you, though, and maybe I’m reading too much into this (or OTOH personalizing it too much since I’ve experienced similar stuff), please do not get into the huge self doubt (“oh, how could I have been so wrong about some one”). There are some very skilled liars out there (there were some I’ve dealt with that could spin the most improbable story, and you’d find yourself nodding along until after they left and you’d think ‘Huh???’) One character like this worming their way into your life does not mean that you are not skilled in assessing people and working with them effectively (after all, you’ve managed to be around this bunch of ummmmmmmm characters, yea, that’s it) for quite a while!).

take care.

16

Jeez, Veb, I am so sorry to hear about this. I leave town for a couple of days and come back, check the boards and here you are having troubles.

Don’t you know we all look to you for help with our problems. You are not allowed to have problems.

Seriously, I and obviously everyone else are definitely on your side. We feel good that you asked us for advice. Clearly you have received a great many (and somewhat conflicting) directions to go, but knowing you, I think you will pick through the advice offered and choose an intelligent solution.

Personally I think that this is one of those people who always sees the grass as greener somewhere else, and she will probably be moving on soon even if she doesn’t get the position she thinks she has been promised. She is just starting some anticipatory burning of bridges.

My experience of this type of person is that they don’t just start rumors in one direction and people quickly learn to realize that a rumor monger is without much substance. People will weigh her words and your actions and your actions will win out.

I think the first part of dragonlady’s advice is good, and I also agree with straykat. I also think that being confrontational can work in small office settings, but as the office/business gets larger there is more danger of those situations becoming severe. And as I remember, your office set-up is quite large and complex. For this reason I echo the sentiment of you going to personnel.

In a smaller office, I would recommend you going to the person and saying, “Look I know you are looking at this other job and they are looking at you, and from things I have heard, I know you are not happy here under my administration. Perhaps this would be a good time to part company.”

But I have a feeling (be willing to bet a dollar on it, as a matter of fact), that this woman would come out of a one-on-one meeting making up more stories about you, and probably ones even worse than she already has begun. You don’t want that.

Hang is there. You will have to walk on egg shells for a while, but unfortunately that is part of being a boss. I am so sorry. If there is anything I, or any of us for that matter, can do, just reach out.

Remember, as I have seen you say to others, “this too shall pass.” It is sometimes hard to remember that but do.

TV

17

Veb,

Think of this as an opportunity to advance her personal and professional education. You must use this chance to teach her the old adage: If you’re going to attempt regicide, you have to succeed in killing the king; otherwise your life is forfiet.

If it was as brutal and unexpected a stabbing as you describe, you must immediately turn around and cut her throat. You are in a steel cage match, and only one of you will leave the ring. (To mix a metaphor or six.)

She should be taught that if you’re going to go against a boss (and in particular THE boss), you have to have your strategy and allies set up in advance. As an agency head, you have tremendous resources at your disposal, even in a governmental/civil service regime. Use them.

First of all, look up. You say you report to several boards and committees. Do you have any allies on those boards that you can approach in advance to gain their support. You should be able to go to key overseers and explain your sorrow that this junior who you nurtured and had such high hopes for turned and started spreading rumors about you. That way, if it does get up to the oversight level, you’ll have the boards pre-primed to understand your side of the story and why you had to handle it as ruthlessly as you will.

Second, HR is the boss’s friend. How you play this depends on the type of HR department you have. If it is a large, professional department that reports to you (the best case) or is even a professional department in another part of your governmental organization, you should go to the head of HR. If it is just a clerk who handles payroll and employee files, you should go to the agency legal counsel. In either event, you should lay out what happened (if they are experienced, they should have seen this type of thing before) and explain that you find this unacceptable and that you want to drive her into the coldest corner of purgatory, if not out of the agency entirely. You should ask their advice on how to deal with it and work with them on strategy. This has two advantages – it covers your behind on the legalities and puts HR on your side, removing the possibility that HR could wind up in her corner.

(There’s one instance that I was involved on the sidelines of where a subordinate won a HR battle with her boss. The boss overplayed his hand with impulsive reprimand and warning letters, and my friend came back with some carefully crafted response letters that demonstrated that the boss was being unfair and inappropriate. They stayed working together under an armed truce, until they were both laid off when the war-torn department was eliminated in a merger. Do not let this happen to you.)

Third, you must (acting under the advice of HR and legal counsel) semi-publicly demonstrate to her and the agency who is boss. You say that she enjoys idea work and has trouble with implementation. If you can’t demote her, you can pull her off projects she enjoys, and assign her responsiblity the most boring, repetitive implementation tasks that are appropriate to her rank and station. To the extent she has direct responsibility for subordinates, you can remove them from her control. You can survey the rest of management (particularly her direct supervisors and key allies, if any) about her, expressing concerns about her judgment, maturity, teamwork, follow-through, and honesty.

Once you’ve figured out your strategy, you should call her into your office for a meeting (and include her direct supervisor, and possibly with a representative of HR or legal). You shouldn’t just call her directly for the meeting, but do it through her direct supervisor (or HR or Legal), and preferably involve in the chain of communication a secretary or administrator with a big mouth.

When you have her on the carpet, you should explain that it is unacceptable to spread rumors and lies and that her performance and chances for advancement would improve if she concentrated more on the implementation side of her duties, where she is deficient, rather than the head-in-the-clouds idea side. On the advice of HR/legal, you may want to give her a written warning/reprimand to build a chain of documentation, but keeping it verbal at this stage might be better.

As she is interested in acquiring power, an object lesson on the use of power is appropriate in this instance. Slit her throat and leave her head on a post outside your office as a subtle demonstration that you should not fuck with TVeblen.

18

True.

My husband would say that it’s like trying to prove you’re not crazy. Virtually impossible to defend yourself…plus you can’t take action or get retribution without looking like you’re paranoid.

Seek the advice of HR and document everything, but don’t try to get even or it will look like you’re covering up something.

Be mature, be steadfast, just be yourself. People will figure it out.

Sorry Veb.

19

I seen some unpleasant examples in the past, but I won’t review them, because so many had unhappy endings. But one problem with bureacracies is that sometimes someone decides to “let’s play tag–and you’re it”.

It’s situations like this that remind us of the importance to keep resumes and contacts up-to-date, “just in case”. Also the importance of separating your self-identity from your job title. But if worse-comes-to-worst, nowadays there isn’t the same stigma with having to change jobs that there used to be, and anyway, people are well aware of the politics that exist in all organizations.

20

I’m terribly, terribly sorry this is happening to you.

That said, I have an extensive background in HR. I know exactly what will happen if this goes “official.” It’ll get ugly, she’ll get defensive and drag out her protestations of innocence, yada yada yada. Six months later, nothing is accomplished, both of your reputations are stained, and nobody wins.

So here is what I would do. We worked this up for a past manager who was having similar problems, and it worked like a <profanity implied> charm.

This will work only if you are emotionally centered. You have to make an effective presentation. You must be solid, calm, and totally in charge. A slight hint of condescension isn’t bad, either. But the point is, you cannot appear weak or indecisive in any way.

Call her into your office. Sit her opposite your desk. Look at her for a few seconds.

Then say this (or the equivalent):

"I know exactly what you’ve been doing. I know exactly why you’re doing it, too. I’ve seen it before. I’ve been around. What you’re doing isn’t new at all.

"Now, I know, you’re young, you’re inexperienced. You’re ambitious, and you think this is going to help you. It isn’t, though. What you’re doing is one of the oldest and lamest tricks in the book, and it very rarely works. I know you think you thought it up, and I know you’re proud of yourself, but believe me, people have been trying this routine for many, many years before you came along.

"So here’s your choice. You can either go out there and tell everyone you were lying, that you were wrong, that nothing you said had any basis in fact. You will also write a full apology detailing your falsehoods and your intent behind them. Then you will quit and walk away.

"Or, I and this organization will land on you with both feet of every lawyer we can find. What you’re doing isn’t just irresponsible; it’s totally illegal, and if you persist in your behavior, you’re going to get smacked down so hard you’ll wake up three jobs from now wondering what happened.

"This is me doing you a favor. This is me offering you the chance to retract your allegations, to pull yourself out of the mess you’re creating without significant injury to yourself.

"If you don’t take advantage of this opportunity, you’re going to discover exactly how stupid what you’re doing really is. I will sue you for libel. You will lose, and I will win. I will get a lot of your money. This organization will then summarily discipline and discharge you, and the black mark on your record will make it difficult for you to get a job doing anything more complicated than administering Dianetics exams.

"I don’t want to hear any excuses or any denials. I know exactly what you’re doing, and I know exactly what you think you’re going to accomplish by doing it. I’m just letting you know that it’s going to backfire on you in a big way, and I’m giving you the chance to avoid that.

"You have the rest of the day off. Go home. Think about this overnight. You will be here at 9 a.m. tomorrow to give me your decision, and your apology if you’ve written it.

“Now get out of my office.”

If she tries to say one word: “This conversation is over. Get out.”

I don’t recommend this for everyone, not least because few people have the chutzpah to pull this off. I can tell you, though, the time we used it before, the former obnoxious troublemaker suddenly transformed into the human equivalent of a whipped dog.