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“Don’t block the box”, or something to that effect, on traffic signs. I was on a trip to NYC today, and that sign seemed to be at nearly every intersection, threatening a (IIRC) $200 fine. I couldn’t for the life of me tell what ‘box’ this was in reference to.
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I was in NYC today for a field trip for school. We had a sizeable chunk of free time, and because we’re (generally) good kids, were allowed free roam of the area. My friends and I were loitering about Rockefeller Center, and were approached by an NY cop. He asked to see some ID. Me, being the liberal-bordering-on-anarchist that I am, asked why. His answer was to ask us if we were supposed to be in school. After a bit of back-and-forth, in which I scared my friends by trying to convince him that he had no right to demand ID, and we were not cutting school, he gave up and left us alone. Did he have the right to demand ID? I asked if we were breaking any laws; he said we weren’t (that he could see).
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There were apparently two motorcades going through the area around Rockefeller Center this afternoon (down 6th, IIRC). When they had the street all barricaded but no limos in sight, the cops had also cordoned off the crosswalks on one side of the street- we had to cross the street perpendicular to our direction, cross the cross-street there, then cross back over to our side of the street (make sense?) Why? Any guesses?
This refers to blocking the intersection, in the sense of crossing over the stop line when the light is green, but not being able to get out of the intersection when the light turns red because the cars in front of you are stopped. If this happens then cars on the cross streets can’t go across the intersection. I think this is generally frowned upon everywhere (I got a written warning from a cop about this in Cambridge MA) but in Manhattan they seem to really try to raise public awareness.
My only answer to #2 is that I would think NYC cops must deal with a disproportionate number of young street punks, truants and runaways.
The Box is the square formed by the 4 corners of an intersection–it means that cars should not be driven into the imaginary box unless the driver is certain he can get all the way across the street before the light changes, so he won’t find himself in the middle of the intersection, blocking traffic.
IMO it’s a pain in the ass law. Every time I’ve blocked the box, it’s been because some unpredictable event has happened, like traffic suddenly stops dead after I venture out into the intersection. If I waited until there’s a full car-length free in the street beyond the intersection, I can be very sure that someone will just pull into the space ahead of me.
I think cops are allowed to ask schoolage kids to produce ID during normal school hours, or at least they were allowed to when I was a kid. I don’t know if this practice has been upheld in court.
- Fight Gridlock, Don’t Block The Box!
“The Box” is the area in the middle of the intersection where both streets actually cross. Often they will be cross-hatched in white paint. When driving, you’re not supposed to enter the box unless you have space to exit it on the other side. If you get caught in the box when the light changes, you can create gridlock by not allowing the cross-street’s traffic to pass.
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Criminal law is not my area, but my understanding of the New York law in this area is that he has the right to ask you for ID for any reason or no reason at all. However, you don’t have to produce it unless he has reasonable suspicion of criminal activity. You were perfectly right to refuse his request.
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No clue.
Ah - I’d been looking for some sort of physical, 3-D ‘box’. In NJ, we refer to those areas as ‘intersections’. 
Boxes are 2-dimensional – cubes are 3-d. 
As to question 3, it might be coincidence. Around Rock Center, and particularly during the holidays, the police direct pedestrians around intersections such that they are crossing the street on the side that doesn’t impede vehicular traffic that is turning. That is to say, they have walkers cross on the north side of south-running streets and vice versa. The idea is to get as many of the bajillion cars through as possible during each light cycle. If they were doing it only before the motorcades, the idea would have been to clear as much traffic as possible in advance of it.
I hope you don’t mind my adding a question about NYC. I know that the Chelsea Hotel in the Village is known for its literary connections. Dylan Thomas and Mark Twain, among others, lived there. I think that’s where Sid killed Nancy too.
Given that it has a two star rating, is it an acceptable/clean place to stay in anyone’s opinion?
Also, which is better – the Waldorf or the Plaza? Is the Algonquin still a reasonable place? What is most convenient to Tiffany & Co.?
6th Ave goes up.
Crap. I’m going to have to re-package my Christmas presents now; they’re short a dimension.
Rectangles, including squares, are 2D; boxes (right hexahedra), including cubes, are 3D. Though sometimes squares are referred to as boxes, as in a “check box.”
The Chelsea Hotel isn’t in the Village; it’s in Chelsea. AFAIK, it’s primarily a residential hotel, and a failry standard 2-star.
Of the three high-end hotels, the Plaza is closest to Tiffany’s, being right across 5th Avenue from it.
I remember reading about the Chelsea’s renovation in the mid to late '90s, when I lived there. I would imagine that as far as clean and acceptable goes, it is just fine. I would assume that a ‘new’ clean would last these 6 or so years, even in a hotel in NYC. My parents actually honeymooned there in '59.
I have been to the Waldorf and it is out of this world, my favorite hands down. I have been in the lobby of the Plaza and it is marvelous too, I’m sure the rooms are just as great. Maybe part of town and vibe (Plaza- lap of luxury grand central station, right on the park, waldorf-astoria- hidden jewel, especially that interior extra special bit of the hotel accessable only from the special elevator- what is it called?) would affect your preference.
The Mariott way downtown is cool and modern (nice juxtaposed with those crazy old downtown streets winding around so crazily) and has great bathrooms.
Rajah Royal midtown or so is very very nice, too.
I wish I knew the current status of the Algonquin. Wish I had checked when I was there.
Suspicion of Truancy? And it is MY understanding that a cop has the RIGHT to ask for ID, just like he has the right to ask your name or what your favorite color is. He may not be able to haul you downtown if you don’t answer, but he can ask whatever the hell he wants.
Thanks panache45 and x27. That helps a lot!
The Algonquin is under new ownership and recently renovated. I can’t vouch for the rooms, though; several of us meet there occasionally for lunch/tea, but we’re only ever in the restaurant. My impression is that overall, the prior owners had lett the place get pretty tatty, but the new ones are making more effort.
As a location, it’s pretty good for shopping - right by Lord & Taylor, and in good weather it’s not much of a walk to Macy’s or Saks/Rockefeller Plaza. It’s the closest of the three you name to the theatre district.
A cop can ask you anything. Its a free country. The question is whether you have to comply. You do if his inquiry/stop is limited and based on a reasonable suspicion of a crime (truancy). This is called a Terry stop. Assuming there is a law against truancy, he could have frisked you and detained you briefly.
As for the hotels, in my experience you are more likely to get a decent room at the Waldorf than the Plaza. For $200-$300, you area going to get a room the size of a closet in NYC, especially at these hotels. The plaza probably has the best location in all of NYC, however. On the other hand, its easy to get around in NYC with the subway, so why pay extra for this location?
At least there are painted boxes in New York intersections. In Washington, D.C., they recently started putting up these signs and there are no painted boxes on the street and since there has been no historical use of “Don’t block the box,” most people don’t know what the hell the signs are talking about.
Welcome to the war, fellow freedom fighter!
Most states (don’t know about NY or NYC) have ID laws where the police, “for the public safety” may demand identification. Howerer, and most police misinterpret this: you do not have to produce an ID card. You only need to identify yourself, you do not need to “prove” the identity
Now, “Since this is no longer a nation of freedoms nor laws but databases”(Copyright 1999.) some police think that you must help them access their database. I’ve been trying to bring this to court with little success. When asked my name and then asked how to spell it I reply, “I don’t care how you spell it.” Unfortunately the charges of resisting arrest are dismissed before a jury trial is convened. Oh well, jail is sometimes the prize for a freedom fighter.
Footnote: Virginia used to require petitions for name changes to supply a reason for the change. This was successfully changed because taking any name one chooses (except for fraud) is a right by common law.
Yeah, 'cause cops really need some piss-ant making their dangerous, low-paying jobs even tougher . . .
In a word, decent.