It’s still well below the Arab birth rate.
Six children is considered a small family to the Palestinians, or at least to those who are Muslim.
Except for the Haredi, many of whom are fervently anti-Zionist, that’s not remotely true.
Yeah, I agree. There’s no real way to spin demographic data in Israel’s favor.
That’s why I used the word “solid.”
Say what? The percentage of Jewish births in Israel is far higher than the percentage of Arab births. More importantly, the Jewish percentage has been steadily rising for 8 years now and shows no signs of letting up.
The total fertility rate for Arabs in Israel has been dropping steadily for 50 years now while the Jewish rate has been rising. There is no reason not to expect that the numbers will cross over in a few years.
Anyway, what exactly are you saying? Do you think that the graph I linked to is fraudulent?
So, I gather, you don’t see a discussion on fertility rate of a nation that is perceived as a “threat” to be a pre-text to and an instrument of dehumanization? There is a right-wing writer in Canada who called Serbian ethnic cleansing and genocide a necessity in the face of Serbian propaganda touted “through the roof’ fertility rates of the slaughtered. His quote is “if you cannot outbreed the enemy, cull 'em”
As for perceived incoherence – sometimes a closed mindedness or, inability to prep the brain for a possibility of an idea outside of one’s mindset, could be to blame.
http://www.salon.com/news/politics/feature/2011/09/23/palestineprotest/index.html
Care to comment now?
I know English isn’t your first language … but your quote isn’t a “promise”, but a “prediction” based on what the Israeli fellow “fears”.
The first is essentially a threat, and the second is not.
No.
Probably a lot of people think that way. So what?
And sometimes, like in your case, the person just doesn’t make much sense.
Sure, here is the actual quote from Avigdor Lieberman, as far as I can tell:
My first comment is that he did not “promise” anything.
My second comment is that he may or may not be correct. It certainly would not be the first time that the Arabs have prepared for large scale violence.
Oh, man… you are one hell of a bigot. Thanks for playing but I have it as principle that a bigot – of the scale you’ve shown yourself to be – no amount of debate would sway an inch.
You are a bigot because for you, some nations in the times of conflict do deserve to be culled for the reasons of high fertility rates that are always highly speculative and in most cases propaganda. I’m tempted to ask on your feeling for some specific WW2 culling but I’ll rest for that.
You are a bigot who does not see a propaganda manipulation and explicit “in your face” threats designed to punish for actions against occupiers and oppressors.
I hope this was coherent enough for you.
I don’t know. Is discussing a nation’s GDP dehumanizing? After all, it reduces human beings to mere monetary statistics.
A stunning rebuttal.
Please show me where I said such a thing. Please QUOTE me. Failing that, please admit that I said no such thing and apologize.
Well not only that, but if you look up the actual quote, Lieberman was saying that the PA was preparing for bloodshed.
So it went from
(1) Lieberman saying that the PA was preparing for bloodshed; to
(2) Salon saying that Lieberman was predicting bloodshed; to
(3) newcomer saying that Lieberman was promising bloodshed.
In other words, a complete lie.
With all due respect you don’t know what you are talking about.
That statement is quite simply bullshit and any Israeli would laugh at it. If you talk to any Israelis one of the things they’ve been talking about for decades is the “demographic problem” specifically that Arabs have much higher fertility rates than Jews.
The Jerusalem Public Affairs Center is vastly more reliable than some guy’s blog, particularly when that blog doesn’t even mention Arab birth rates.
According to the Center, the birth rate for Israeli Muslims is almost twice that of Israeli Jews. Yes, Israeli Jews have higher birth rates than Americans or Europeans, but they’re still well below Israeli Muslims and Muslims in the Occupied territories have even higher birthrates.
http://www.jcpa.org/brief/brief004-19.htm
If you don’t believe me, visit Israel or ask any of the board’s Israelis.
From the Jerusalem Public Affairs Center for anyone who doesn’t want to click on the link.
So you are saying that this graph is fraudulent?
Just because it’s a popular belief doesn’t make it so. I remember back in the 70s they were saying that within 20 years Israel would be majority Arab.
That’s just not true. The fertility rate of Israeli Muslims is currently 3.9 and dropping just like fertility rates are dropping throughout the Muslim world.
Anyway, please answer my question:
Do you agree or disagree with the claim that in Israel, the proportion of Jewish births compared to that of non-Jewish births has been steadily rising since 2003?
It’s a simple question.
Let me get this straight… are you suggesting that heavily speculated and mostly outright exaggerations of one ethnic or religious fertility rates and alarming projections of foreign ethnic or religious domination in future are reasonable and rational tools for discussions? In other words, there is a purpose to it apart from fear mongering from the most irrational elements in a society?
It’s not actually clear what that graph is saying or who came up with it. Moreover, it’s just on some guy’s blog so there’s no reason to think it’s reliable.
Dude, I linked to a report from the Jerusalem Public Affairs Center which states that the fertility rate for Israeli Jews is 2.7 and the fertility rate for Israeli Muslims is 4.5 and that the fertility rate for Israeli Muslins has been holding steady for decades.
If you’re going to claim that the JPAC is wrong you’re going to need to provide some really compelling evidence not some unattributed graph on some guy’s blog or your own unsubstantiated assertions.
Please provide a cite to a reliable source with comparable if not more credibility than the JPAC which claims that the fertility rate for Israeli Muslims is lower than that of Israeli Jews.
Do you even know the name of the organization that came up with it.
It supports both your viewpoints. Israeli Arabs’ current birth rate is higher than Israeli Jews’ rate, but the Jews’ birth rate is currently trending higher while the Arabs’ birth rate is trending lower. The total number of Jewish births is trending higher vs. Arab births trending lower. The predicted future birth rates will become roughly equal in a couple of decades.
The “demographic bomb” is a bit exaggerated.
I certainly think that “the demographic bomb” is exagerated, but Brazil was the one claiming that Jews should be able able to outnumber Palestinians on the West Bank due to fertility rates and that Israeli Jews have higher fertility rates than Israeli Muslims.
Both are ludicrous assertions.
It’s perfectly clear. It’s saying that the percentage of Jewish births in Israel has been steadily rising since about 2003. If you tell me that you believe the graph is fraudulent, then I will try to get statistics from an authoritative source.
But I don’t want to go through that exercise unless you admit right here and now that if I can document my claim, it means you are wrong.
Dude, you linked to a quote from a professor. Moreover, the quote is from 6 years ago, right around the time that Israel’s demographics were starting to turn the corner.
First show me where JPAC officially adopts this professor’s claims.
Please don’t strawman me. Never have I claimed that the fertility rate for Israeli Muslims is lower than that of Israeli Jews.
If Jewish fertility continues to climb and Arab fertility continues to drop, then this will certainly happen.
Please show me where I have made such a claim. Failing that, please admit that I made no such claim and apologize.