Obesity is now an illness.

The BBQ Pit
141

No one is saying that “it’s completely out of everyone’s control”. Saying 'it’s not that simple" is not the same as saying 'it can’t be done". We all KNOW it can be done, a lot of people do it. But for most people it’s not just the math. It’s NOT just calories in= calories out.

An example. My sister and I worked at the barn where she boarded her horse, she got a bunch of money off of her boarding fee for her work.

Anyway, there were between 54 and 58 horses there. Some were what those in the horse industry call “easy keepers”. Basically that means that the horses maintained, or gained weight on very little food, and normal activity didn’t have a lot of effect on it. Others were not “good keepers” and their food had to be constantly adjusted, especially in the wintertime to make sure they didn’t lose too much (essential for animals being kept in cold tempuratures).

With both types of horses, it was a constant battle of adjustment and tweaking, depending upon the weather, how much training the horse was doing, illness, injury, and so on. And that is all WITHOUT the emotional/psychological issues that overeaters face. Were it as “simple” as “eat less, exercise more” why wouldn’t all 54-58 of those horses maintain the same weight on the same amount of food (margins given for size and breed of horse, naturally)??? I mean, why wouldn’t every arab of approximately the same sex and weight maintain its weight on the same number of flakes and scoops of grain and the same training?

Why wouldn’t all the warmbloods of similar weight and the same sex have the same feed and training? Even without the emotional issues that humans face, there is a lot more to it physiologically than just the calories.

You see those folks one hour a day out of their lives. You don’t know what other measures they are taking, and what other struggles they are having in their battle against obesity. You don’t know if they’re “doing it right” or just starving themselves because of so much negativity against them for their looks. You have no way of knowing the other measures they are taking outside of the gym.

You don’t know how much education they’ve had to find for themselves on the subject, you don’t know how much, if any counseling they’ve had to do to deal with the underlying reasons behind their original weight problems, etc. My body for instance. I know exactly how much I eat a day, I measure it out according to the Body for Life program. I know how much I exercise too, but even on a tough regimen such as BFL, my body isn’t too impressed. I have to constantly push the envelope and adjust, tweak and add on to the exercise portion of the program.

Why? I’m guessing it’s because I’ve been in sports (dance and gymnastics) since I was a kid, my body requires more OF me than a person who might just be starting out. But I am one of the lucky ones. I do have a background in sports, i DID have intelligent, healthy, slim, well read parents, and knew how to educate myself. And I was embued with a love of phsyical activity for its own sake by my parents.

A person who has yo-yo dieted themselves up to a tremendous amount of weight, has, in many cases, screwed their metabolism up. They’ll need to tweak and adjust and exercise accordingly. It isn’t “simple” it’s a buttload of work WELL beyond “eat less, exercise more”.

We are not saying “eat less, exercise more” is a cruel and useless mantra because it’s not true, we’re saying it’s useless because that’s not ALL there is to it. There is much, MUCH more to it, there is a lot of “tweaking” and “tricking” to be done to the metabolism for many of these people, especially the morbidly obese. And that’s not to even mention the work they must do on the psyche part of it.

And no, of COURSE not all, and that there are those who can simply drop a few meals and jump on a treadmill and VOILA, they’re cured, I say “YAY”. But that doesn’t then mean, that for everyone it’s as simple as “eat less, exercise more”. And having people say that, over and over, as if it’s some sort of solution has NOT worked. Again, it’s not as if obese people don’t KNOW they need to eat less and exercise more, it’s that for many of them, physically, emotionally and education-wise, they don’t know how to put it into practice. And with THAT they need help, not judgment, not “geez stupid, put down the burger”. And THAT’S our main beef with that silly saying.

142

Exactly. From a medical standpoint, there is a lot more going on that a simple solution. As a person becomes obese, their body goes through changes. It isn’t MEDICALLY that simple let alone psychologically.

I guess I’m with CanvasShoes and others with the question of why some people are so hostile toward the obese. Rarely do you see a dipshit rude enough to say to an alcoholic “Well duh, just quit drinking!.” or to a drug addict “Oh, just stop smoking crack. Simple as that!.” yet they have no problem looking down their nose at someone whose addiction is food.

143

While I read and understood most of your reply, I think you’re missing a clause here. I assume you forgot it due to the complexity of the sentence and the lengthy parenthetical). Mind completing the sentence so I know what you were gonna say here? :slight_smile:

144

ACK you’re right, I didn’t…blush…

I guess what I was getting at, is that the govt making guidelines and offering assistance isn’t to say that they’re ThEN going to take it to “Big Brother/Camazotz” status, and start actually telling us what we can, or cannot eat.

They’re already tried that, (prohibition?) and it failed. I don’t really see that it would work with food. I mean, unlike other addictive substances, food is something we can’t avoid :smiley:

145

Aha. Well, most of the folks I mentioned in my previous post don’t seem to think we’ll be told outright by the government what to and not to eat, but it’ll be done in a more insidious way, like what’s been done with alcohol and tobacco. IOW, through costly and unnecessary labeling laws, taxes on “unhealthy” foods, regulations on ingredients and portion sizes everywhere from store shelves to restaurants, mandatory minimum shelf space for “wholesome” food at stores, etc. Heck, some are directly comparing this event as another step towards a Prohibition II, not codified into the Constitution, but the law of the land just the same (this Prohibition encompassing everything from sugar and fat to tobacco to alcohol).

So I understand what you’re saying; I’m just not sure you’ve QUITE addressed the concerns I was talking about. Sorry for being unclear.

146

Oooh, okay yeah, I see what you’re saying. I’m not sure I entirely disagree with some of that being done though. For instance, the part about mandatory shelf space for “wholesome” foods. That kind of ties in to what I was saying earlier about them needing to subsidize fruits and vegetables at the same rate they do corn, thus making them easier and cheaper to get ahold of.

I don’t know how much more labeling they could do though, don’t most foods have all of the nutrition information on them? Or were you meaning more along the lines of warning labels? Such as overuse of this product could lead to obesity? I can’t see that that would be anything different than the labeling of video games or CDs. That is, most people ignore them.

The “twinkie tax” part??? I don’t really know. I guess I’m a bit on the fence on that one, but leaning more toward support, even though I like a twinkie now and again myself.

147

How would you classify alcoholism or heroin addiction?

148

Actually, not a bad idea. Probably not gonna happen, but…

Now you’re just being mean.

Lovely. Just lovely.

149

[QUOTE=TVeblen]
I don’t think it’s remotely ‘fatties vs. skinnies’ , though there are plenty who’re all too eager to reduce the equation to “I’m fine, so fuck you, loser.”
QUOTE]
I agree. I’m what most people would consider a “skinny” and I would think there are enough of “us” who love one of “them” to want something good to happen in the fight against fat. I don’t understand the divisiveness.

150

I’m guessing for the moment that you mean me, seeing as how I brought this up in another Pit thread during the past week.

I don’t know if I’m oversimplifying, to be honest. I don’t think I am. Let me first state a few things that I take as absolute facts, based on the personal experience of being a European who happens to be in America quite frequently.
[ul][li]Americans are larger than Europeans. Not taller, on average - certainly not taller than Dutchmen. But a lot bigger.[]To anyone (American or European) who spends a number of weeks on the other side of the pond, it’s crystal clear WHY Americans are larger on average: they move around less, and eat a LOT more. Again: all on average. []A small percentage of overweight people have one or more medical conditions that make it virtually impossible for them to lose weight. The vast majority of overweight people do not, however.[*]In addition to the points above about portion size and mobility, American society tends to be somewhat of an excuse culture at times. Don’t rake me over the coals for this, it’s a personal observation, but a lot of Americans always seem so keen to find an excuse for a certain characteristic or situation that is undesirable. I don’t know why this is, nor do I claim to know the solution. All I know is that again, I’m reading a thread about obesity, and again, the posters saying their obesity is caused by medical conditions, outweigh those who say their calory intake is too big for the amount of energy they burn by a factor of what, five to one? [/ul]It just doesn’t make sense to me. [/li]
Look, I know all about genetics. My father weighs a good 110 kilograms, and he’s just as tall as I am (1.87 meters). My mother is now finally just under 100 kilograms, after having peaked at well over 120 kilograms (at 1.68 meters of height). My 29 year old sister is about 80 kilograms, I’d say (at about 1.74 or so). We’re a fat family, there’s no way around it. Comes from both sides genetically.

Two months ago, I visited my doctor because I was having sleeping problems. I’m under the impression I have sleep apnea, something which my doctor subscribed too, BTW. Wanna know why? Because I’m too fat, probably (I have a neurologist appointment tomorrow). Then, he measured my blood pressure. It was 140 over 95.

I’m 31, dammit.

That afternoon, I bought my first ever pair of scales. I think I hadn’t weighed myself for at least 3 years or so. Digital scales, too, accurate to 100 grams. Neato!

Except I weighed in at 105.7 kilograms. Shit.

That was it for me. I started hitting the gym, trying to do it 2 hours a week, time permitting (I don’t like it, BTW. It’s boring. I like playing games, but the fact it that nothing burns fat as efficiently as riding my ass off on a bike for half an hour, keeping my heart rate over 140). I stopped eating cookies, cake, chips, what have you. I cut down on my carbs, curbed my portions (even though I was never a particularly big eater), and vowed not to drink any alcohol during the week. Furthermore, I started eating tomatoes and cucumbers like mad. They fill you up nicely, yet they’re essentially water. Cool.

Two months later. This morning, I weighed in at 98.6 kilograms. I’m not nearly there yet - I need to go to at least 90 kilograms to be in the “acceptible” range. But if I keep this pace up, I could reach that within 3 months, and that’s mightily encouraging.

On the way to work, I stopped by the doctor’s office to have my blood pressure checked.

115 over 85! YES!!
Oh sure, I know that blood pressure tests are essentially snapshots, and that my last test (the high one) was probably overinflated on account of me being a tad nervous, even subconciously. But it’s still great to learn that you’re in a better shape than you thought. I can feel my suits getting wider in the waist area, I feel more energetic than I felt before, and my sleep problems have lessened significantly.[ul][li]I KNOW my situation doesn’t apply to everyone.[]I agree that obesity has become such a problem in America, that bickering over labeling it a disease or not seems petty: whichever works, people, because the point of no return is frighteningly near. All theories of WHY aside, something’s seriously wrong in America, and it needs to be addressed. If labeling obesity a “disease” is going to do the trick (or at least part of it), then go for it.[]I am NOT bashing anyone who’s fat. I am NOT bashing Americans. I am NOT denying there are valid medical reasons behind some obesity cases. I do NOT think anyone on this thread or elsewhere on the boards is lying: I think they are convinced of their stories. I DO think that perhaps in some of those cases, they may be underestimating the extent to which they can indeed make a difference. [/ul]So, here we go - time to hit submit. No doubt, some of this post will be seen as offensive to some. I assure you it’s not intended to be. [/li]
I’m just another fatass who used to make excuses, and put off losing weight because I didn’t the problem was that serious. I needed the wake-up call of my high blood pressure combined with my sleeping problems to get me motivated. I got married last February, and I hope to be with my wife for a long, long time. It feels great to finally have taken control of my weight issue.

That’s all. And if that’s oversimplifying things to any of you, then so be it. I don’t think it is.

151

But we can explain why that is! :smiley:

152

Stop comparing obese people to car crash victims and cancer patients. They are not they are nothing alike.

However, an AIDS patient is a little closer. I’ll consider that analogy and get back to you.

153

Augh! I meant, “They are nothing alike.”

154

I have a girlfriend who lost 40 lbs after her doctor told her she needed to take it off (not that she didn’t know that herself). But he sent her to a nutritionist, who taught her how to eat properly and take off the weight. Sometimes it’s as simple as a pamphlet or some realistic rules. Not everyone needs to see a nutritionist to figure it out, but if the new obesity ruling allows some people to do that, it will be worth it.

155

I’m willing to bet real money that we don’t get an answer on this.

Want to know something sad? While I’m doing work for bariatric surgeons, my direct boss is a cardiac surgeon, who himself makes insulting remarks about “those people” (of which I am one, but apparently he doesn’t see me as such). A doctor, and one of the nicest people I’ve worked for, constantly makes disparaging remarks about “fatties.” I suppose if someone educated in medicine can make such ignorant comments, then I could cut less educated people some slack. I could, but I won’t. :cool:

While I agree with everything in the last quoted section, one word sticks out most, and that’s “value.” Add in the phrase “car-oriented society” and you’ve got a recipe for flab. Which makes me think that while the illness is individual, the disease is cultural. Colophon’s own testimony bears that out – when he started living like an American, he started weighing like an American.

I try to do this, but it ain’t always easy. What works better for me is to keep a few things fresh in the fridge and make 2 different dishes on alternating nights, until the food starts to go bad.

Thanks!

For one thing, I’m not a girl. Secondly, yes, I have weights on my limbs during my workouts – it’s called blubber.

Thirdly, I’m in serious pain today. :mad:

156

Coldfire hit the nail on the head.

To summarize, a person is fat because of conscious choices he or she has made. When I see a fat person I know one or more of the following are true:

  1. They made a decision to overeat.
  2. They made a decision to eat the wrong kinds of food.
  3. They made a decision to not exercise.

It’s that simple.

157

Well hang on, I wasn’t that harsh - I did allow for the possibility of medical reasons in a small percentage of overweight people. But for the bulk (ha!) of people who are overweight, yes, it’s the result of choices.

Now, I realise that with the abundancy of fast food chains, relatively expensive quality foods, and pretty much forced reliability on a car, it’s obviously harder for most Americans to keep in shape than it is for, say, Europeans. Hence the weight differences. But they’re still choices, regardless of the circumstances.

158

One benefit I see to calling obesity an illness is that it is a better (and more realistic) alternative to calling it a moral failing. “I can make better choices” vs “I’m a bad person.” If cancer patients have a problem with that, then they need to get educated on the matter. If tax payers and “superior” thin people have a problem with it, then fuck 'em.

Bullshit. If you replace the word “conscious” with “unconscious, ignorant, or cultural”, and insert that same phrase before “decision”, I’d be more inclined to agree. The way you phrase it implies that fat people make a conscious and positive decision every day to become fatter, and that’s just stupid.

159

Exactly! Hey I’m not even over weight (well 5 pounds or so) but I have the muscle tone of playdough. I chose that cause I hate regular exercise. Nothing against being physical, just I don’t do anything regularly and I’m now late 30’s. It’s not paying off.

I would be fat but I don’t have the food thing. I’m a smoker and caffiene addict. A coffee and a fag will get me through most things. The guy where I buy my smokes has a delightful sense of humour and always asks if I want a packet of “poison”.

I don’t like my body due to it’s squishiness but a depression curve ball will make me smoke more not eat more.

I do have a plumpish child though. He’s not bad but could get that way. He wants to eat when he is bored, or if he had a bad day and sometimes just because.

We serve our emotions with our addictions. There is more obesity because we have less to worry about but more time to worry about it in then our anscestors.

160

Sorry, but I’m not buying the argument that an obese person’s subconcious made them walk past the fresh fruits and vegetables in the grocery store and buy the Ding Dongs and pork rinds. These aren’t zombies we’re talking about. Nearly every person in this thread that has said their obese has also said “I eat too much and I eat the wrong foods.” That’s the statement of a conscious person, who’s aware of the dangers involved in their choices and still continues to make the same choise.

If you can make the decision to go to McDonalds, and once you’re in there, make the conscious decision to get the Quareter Pounder with Cheese (super size that, please) instead of the grilled chicken salad, then you’re right, you’ve made an ignorant choice. It isn’t cultral, it isn’t sub-conscious. The obese person has said to themselves “Yes, I know I’m obese, that I’m doing harm to my health, and that I shouldn’t be eating this shit, but I’m going to do it anyway.” They can continue to do that until their coronaries strike them in the middle of a bite of lemon chess pie and it doesn’t make them bad people, but don’t try to absolve all obesity on society, culture, or the unconscious.