If I recall correctly OBL stated 3 things he was unhappy with about the US at the time.
US support for Israel.
US presence in the holy land.
US treatment of Iraq.
It seems to me that:
The US is starting to really pressure Israel into a decent relationship with the Palestinians.
The US seems to be on its way out of SA. Might affect the Saudi family which OBL hates, paving the way to a wahabi rule.
The US has at least lifted the sanctions on Iraq wich is thought to have participated in many deaths and alot suffering of the Iraqi ppl. MIght mean future prosperety for the Iraqi ppl. A side benefit to OBL is the fall of secular leader SH, although it might mean mostly rising Shia religious fervor.
OBL has been living in a cave most of his adult life by his own choice so I dont think hes too unhappy right now.
Still, it has to be said however - we here in the West should not be too concerned with whether a true righteous world class cunt like Usama bin Laden is feeling smug or not.
Ultimately, our concerns in the West should be whether we are sharing our wealth, and our good fortunes, and our health systems and education systems etc. But, you know, that’s more of a personal philosophy on my part so I don’t really know what else to say - except that your OP certainly has merit.
Not to mention the Bush in Africa helping the poor folk and doling out concessions and aid and . . . and . . .stuff. The man’s developed a heart-warming interest in the undeveloped world considering he didn’t even have a Foreign Policy before 9/11.
As I’ve posted often over the past months, I think this US Administration has ticked all the items in OBL’s shopping list while selling itself to the US public as hell-bent on retribution. It’s not necessarily bending over and letting OBL grease George’s arse, it‘s also valid to see this as the US finally addressing the long term and festering concerns of the whole Muslim and Arab world (and of which OBL was a radcial wing). This stuff is all long over due and it’s finally been recognized.
Thus, for me, the acquisition of Iraq followed by, within two weeks, the announcement of US military withdrawal (save for a token presence) from the Holy Land was, for me, offered the final confirmation.
Of course, part of the context is a general need to reconfigure relationships in the Middle East – stuff that’s been long postponed because of other dependent factors. But 9/11 broke the leave-it-for-now log jam.
But my mind is still open. Maybe, just maybe, Bush has become so interested in solving the Israel/Palestine problem because he’s just that kind of man . . . .
Pressure on Israel from the US was alot stronger in 2000 than it is now, if he was not happy then, he won’t be happy now.
There is still a US presence in Saudi, just now as big. The Saudi government is starting to get serious about terrorism and islamic extremism for the first time.
Iraq being ruled by americans is much worse in his eyes than UN sanctions could ever be.
Combine these things with the fall of the Taliban, the arrest or death of many of his henchmen, the new global effort to combat terrorist finances and the lack of succesful terrorist attacks in the US, and OBL must be hating life right now.
Means just what he said…that the US doesn’t do anything from the goodness of its heart. Alturism is rarely part of our foriegn policy…
For the OP:
I doubt that our stance with Israel is making him too happy. Thats not exactly what he wants, peace in the region. He wants Israel destroyed as a power in the region.
We may have pulled back a bit from SA, but we haven’t withdrawn everything (to the best of my knowledge anyway), so I doubt he’s turning cartwheels over this either. Until ALL of us infidels are gone, he won’t be happy about this situation. Also, I think the SA government may be getting tougher on its more radical element, so that won’t make him happy either.
It is to laugh. I seriously doubt he’s too happy by the turn of events in Iraq (though no doubt he gets a chortle or two whenever he hears of another American soldier dieing over there). Even though SH was secular, its preferable to have him there than the US, in his mind at least, IMO. We’ve destroyed one of the few powers over there that was percieved as ‘standing up’ to the Americans, and even if he personally found SH distasteful, he won’t be happy about his removal.
Still, all in all I’m sure ObL is not TOO unhappy these days. He’s managed to shake the only super power in the world, and to personally effect world event with a private organization. He has tweeked the Americans nose, and has (so far) gotten away with it. He’s managed to spark, to a certain extent, the kind of religious fundamentalism he desires in the ME, and bring to a head the confrontation between the western powers (and the more moderate/secular element in the ME) and the religious fundamentalist element. Not bad for a guy that looks like he’s eating a sheep dog…
Actually, one of ObL’s stated goals was to have the US use iron-fisted tactics in th eArab world so as to increase his pool of recruits, or otherwise further polarize and alienated Arabs against the US.
In addition, Hussein was deposed. I doubt that there was any love between ObL and SH.
Bush seemed totally disinterested in Israel at the start of his presidency. Now hes all over them. Pls expand. Im not adverse to changing my opinion on this point if you can just give me a reason.
Wolfowitz told reporters that the war in Iraq was greatly motivated by the US need to move troops out of SA. Is he lying?
Your other point is that the Saudis are just now moving in on terrorism. I would like a cite. Even if true I think that would just reinforce my believe that the Saudis are in danger of being overrun by Wahabis.
I doubt OBL thinks the US is there to stay. In the meantime Anti-American sentiments and religious fervor is on the rise. American presence in Iraq probably decreases travel expenses as well.
The Taliban are at the negotiating table with the US on how they are going to participate in Afgani governments. I agree that arrests and bankwars must hurt OBL but I think that is something he already thought was going to happen. The US lost more than 3000 ppl on 9/11. The US has lost more than 200 soldiers since and is loosing soldiers at a steady pace. The US is also loosing friends and $ at a steady pace.
Bush seemed totally disinterested in Israel at the start of his presidency. Now hes all over them. Pls expand. Im not adverse to changing my opinion on this point if you can just give me a reason.
Wolfowitz told reporters that the war in Iraq was greatly motivated by the US need to move troops out of SA. Is he lying?
Your other point is that the Saudis are just now moving in on terrorism. I would like a cite. Even if true I think that would just reinforce my believe that the Saudis are in danger of being overrun by Wahabis.
I doubt OBL thinks the US is there to stay. In the meantime Anti-American sentiments and religious fervor is on the rise. Then there are the sweating American targets walking around Baghdad.
The Taliban are at the negotiating table with the US on how they are going to participate in Afgani governments. I agree that arrests and bankwars must hurt OBL but I think that is something he already thought was going to happen. The US lost more than 3000 ppl on 9/11. The US has lost more than 200 soldiers since and is loosing soldiers at a steady pace. The US is also loosing friends and $ at a steady pace.
Well he was concerned w/ moving the US embassy to Israel to Jerusalem.
I think that this is seen as inflammatory to the Palestinians and the Arab world in general because it seems as if Bush is advocting ceding Jerusalem to the Israelis. I think that a number of the UN plans called for Jerusalem to be an international city and/or under joint control. But I’m pretty sure that none of them called for it to be solely in Israel’s hands.
Maybe Collounsbury or Tamerlane will come by and give an opinion as to how inflammatory this plan is or is not.
It is once again a sign of the complete stupidity of Bush. Sadly enough that is not how it is seen, because if it were, it would maybe less damaging. Maybe.
And not to disturb you people, but you could take in mind that the Saudis ARE Wahabbis.
Pressure on Israel from the US was alot stronger in 2000 than it is now, if he was not happy then, he won’t be happy now.
Bush didn’t take office until January 2001. In 2000, Clinton was feverishly pressuring Israel during (and before) the Middle East Peace Summit at Camp David. So much so that the peace process fell apart.
OBL’s beef is not with Bush or Clinton, or any other individual. It’s with US policy and actions in the Middle East over the last 50 years.
Besides which, 2,000+ Palestinians have been killed at the hands of Israelis during the current uprising. I don’t think OBL is happy at that. Not that he necessarily cares about those lives, but it doesn’t bring any closer the dismantling of the state of Israel.
Well, my understanding was that Osama’s first and foremost goal was to get the U.S. out of Saudi Arabia after Gulf War I. But, a lot’s changed since then.
I’d say overall that the guy’s probably pleased with himself. 9/11 was a big triumph, of course. Al Queda is a household name now. For those pissed-off Muslims tired of American policy in the region, his organization has to be pretty attractive.
Then, instead of waging a war on Al Queda, the Bushies wage a “War on Terrorism.” Instead of taking a single-minded approach toward the killers who orchestrated 9/11, the U.S. government decided to take an approach that would allow it to attack any entity it deemed terrorist. As part of this approach, the Bushies decided to stretch the “War on Terrorism” to Iraq, and then they made up a bunch of reasons why this was part of this “war.”
So, the U.S. attacks Iraq, further hurting its credibility and reputation in the Middle East. Heck, we did this without even Turkey’s aid. Nobody in that region helped in this aggression on Iraq. Now, our soldiers are over there, getting picked off by angry Muslims who obviously can see that the occupiers aren’t handing over the keys to their country. It’s got to look like “empire” to them, and I have to agree.
On top of that, the U.S. has taken steps backward in the realm of civil liberties, thanks to the likes of John Ashcroft.
Oh, I’m sure OBL’s pleased as punch. The U.S. is doing all his recruiting for him. I don’t think he’s buying the notion that things are all right now that the U.S. has decreased its presence in his “holy land.” Methinks he’s skeptical, what with the taking over of an entire nation next door.
Almost all of the pressure Bush has exerted in the Isreal-Palestine situation has been one Palestine. They have appointed a new Prime minister with greater powers and negotiated cease fires with some of the terrorist groups. Israel does not seem to have changed much at all.
The US moving troops out of Saudi Arabia has more to do with the Saudi government’s fickleness about what the US can do with its troops than anything to do with OBL.
Given OBL’s habit of referring to the US as crusaders, it seems unlikely he believes that the US intends to leave anytime soon.
OBL’s objective was to have Islamists take over the govenments of the Middle East. Afghanistan has gone from having being run by Al Queda to being pro-west. Pakistan is much more pro-west and secular than it was before. Iran’s theocratic government is wracked by protestors and the US is very popular there. Iraq has gone from being very anti-American to having a government run by Americans. Quatar is very pro-west. Saudi Arabia is starting to crack down on terrorists there. Most of the countries in the region are more pro-America than ever before. Not what OBL wanted, but he was right when he said “People will by nature choose the strong horse” Before 9-11 they might have thought the strong horse was the terrorists but now they know better.
As for Ashcroft being OBL’s wet dream, I didn’t know he went that way, but it does not suprise me. However, a terrorist would not be happy with a common sense law to make it easier to catch terrorists and harder to kill innocent people. So I can’t think he would be too happy with the passage of the Patriot Act.