I’m sure this is in no way exaggeration or extrapolation. Then again, every celebrity attached to Trump has faced harsh (and utterly baseless) criticism for being friends with or supporting a hateful bigot. Especially all of these folks.
Oh wait. That didn’t happen?
Huh. Weird.
Oh, there’s much, much more to it than this. The U.S. is steeped in a culture war which the left is attempting to win by trying to bully everyone into compliance through insult, criticism, intolerance and hate. Nothing less than freedom itself is at stake. People are not free when they find they have to be ever vigilant of and apologetic for running afoul of political correctness, as has been the case recently where younger (and more successfully indoctrinated) lefties have taken to attacking older lefties for what they perceive as ‘offensive’ remarks and actions, as in the cases I’ve already referenced with Steve Martin and Ellen Degeneres, both of whom not too long ago were firmly established in the firmament of Hollywood liberalism, Degeneres especially by virtue of her homosexuality. Apparently homosexuality alone is no longer a sufficient enough credential to allow one to escape the never-ending efforts of the PC police to ferret out some way to attack people for not being up to speed on what people in our society are currently allowed to say and do or not say and do.
Life in this country is beginning to take on aspects of life as it existed behind the iron curtain, where everyone had to be constantly vigilant not to utter a wrongful thought or or word or criticism lest they be found out by the powers that be. Admittedly we haven’t yet reached the point where people need fear a midnight knock on the door, thereafter never to be seen again, but people are definitely being made to fear the loss of their friend and family relationships and even their careers should they inadvertently or intentionally run afoul of the forces of political correctness.
And these things, my friend, are much, much worse than celebrity controversies and Twitter wars.
But I digress.
Why either? In my opinion it’s number 1 along with a healthy dose of a gleeful hard-on for his anti-PC persona from number 2. They are pretty much inextricable as a matter of fact.
Did anyone glance at that list, the 29 celebrities that endorse Trump? Jon Voight, Hulk Hogan, Scott Baio, Kid Rock? Reading that sad list…Gary Busey?..I feel a stab of sympathy for poor ol’ Donald. Unless that’s gas? Oh, wait… Cut a spicer, all good. OK, much better. Yeah, fuck 'em.
Not at all. Most conservatives are also against sexism and racism, and a fair number either support or just don’t care enough to get het up about gay and trans rights. What they do object to are the things I mentioned in the post immediately above, where the left takes it upon itself to determine which words or beliefs or attitudes shall be deemed racist or sexist or ‘phobic’, etc., and seeks through insult and intimidation and vastly overblown punitive consequence to impose its will upon the rest of the country. Political correctness has morphed into nothing less than an attempt to impose a form of dictatorship upon the country. People can see that. They resent it. And they seek to oppose it. Thus Donald Trump.
You and Kimstu both would be well served to go back and watch the clip linked to in the OP as neither of you appear to have the vaguest notion of how political correctness has become such an overbearing presence in the lives of everyone not caught up in it. I’d suggest that both of you watch the clip over and over and over again until you find yourselves beginning to get the point. The more wise and objective among you have been decrying the excesses of political correctness and other objectionable leftist tactics ever since the election in an attempt to get you to see that you are your own worst enemy. You’d be well served to listen to them.
And now we reach that point in the night where I must regrettably bid you all adieu (here’s hoping THAT isn’t considered racist these days). We conservatives are a polite, considerate and mannerly bunch (rare exceptions excluded) and it seems rude to just drop out of sight with no word as to why. So, it’s been real and it’s been fun, but I’m afraid it’s over for tonight. Ciao.
You do a lot more than digress.
What, exactly, was the consequence for Steve Martin’s “offensive” tweet? A couple people got mad at him on social media, and he got an unflattering column in the New Yorker. The only reason anyone even remembers this is because right-wingers jumped on this as the latest, greatest example of “PC gone wild” - even though it was nothing of the sort. Similarly, you know when the last time I heard anyone other than you bring up that Usain Bolt photo? Back when the story first broke. It was a tiny storm in a teacup that was quickly over and quickly forgotten, the kind of thing that happens on social media regardless of political affiliation. You might as well talk about all those Men’s Rights Advocates who complained about there being no white men protagonists in Star Wars: The Force Awakens. :rolleyes:
Meanwhile, youtuber GrapplingIgnorance was given the choice - shut down his successful youtube channel, or leave his job as a teacher. He faced bullying, threats, and disrespect from students and their parents for the crime of being a left-leaning atheist in the bible belt.
Target decided to institute unisex changing rooms (like are present in virtually every single clothing store I know of in my area here in Germany) and faced not just boycotts, but a constant string of people going into their stores just to stir up shit and prove how “unsafe” these changing rooms are. This massive right-wing backlash came in large part because of a perceived link to “trans rights”.
I’m sure others can think of other examples of this kind of thing coming from the other side. But really, comparing this to life behind the iron curtain? Hey, you wanna “not run afoul of PC”? Don’t be a bigot! It’s that simple! With the exception of a handful of reactionaries on social media with virtually no power to begin with, in the vast majority of cases, if you fuck up on accident, people will gladly forgive if you try to improve.
When the consequences for saying or doing the wrong thing includes things like “you may be fired from your job” or “you may lose friends”… Well shit, if we were talking about going on a drunken bender involving some regrettable actions, nobody would question, even for a moment, that this was pretty normal. But involve sexism, racism, homophobia, transphobia, et cetera - you know, ongoing issues that seriously hurt others - and suddenly it’s “PC GONE WILD!” You’re still free to say or do whatever you want. It’s just that words have consequences. As they always have. As they always will have. If I tell a racist joke, and one of my black friends overhears that, why shouldn’t they think less of me?
Again, it’s just reflexive posturing. “PC” is a shield for bigots to defend against their bigotry. Say something shitty, get called out on it, complain about “PC”, and act like it’s this huge, horrible monstrosity that you are destroying by using overtly misogynistic, racist, or homophobic language. And being called for that kind of shit is so bad that, and I fucking quote: “Life in this country is beginning to take on aspects of life as it existed behind the iron curtain”.
Dude. C’mon.
Oh puh-leeze. You have the balls to sling this bullshit with the Liar-in-Chief in office and Bannon running around doing his utmost to discredit the media to his alt-right fanbois? Give me a fucking break.
I think I could have worded it better. By free stuff I generally meant government programs & expenditures that are currently paid for through borrowing rather than taxes, but I suspect there was a semi-conscious aim at the likes of welfare recipients etc in my wording too.
There’s far more anti-PC whining about how terrible PC-ness is than actual consequences for “violating” PC-ness (the sum of which is almost always no more than being criticized).
Starving Artist comes across as nothing more than a whiner about how some people are criticized. Yes, some people behave like jerks and then get criticized for it. Occasionally someone is criticized unjustly. Often there is legitimate and positive discussion sparked by this criticism. This supposed anti-PC backlash is just a combination of whining and a desire to return to the times in which open racism, sexism, and other forms of bigotry were not publicly criticized harshly.
This. It reminds me of this recent issue on a game I was playing involving a graphical glitch that was somehow adjacent to feminism. The admin of one facebook page I subscribe to was moaning about blizzard “bowing to the SJW cucks” (fucking really). Then I look on the battle.net forums, gamefaqs, and basically anywhere else people talk about this kind of thing, and the discussion is dominated not by the legendary “SJWs” but rather by people complaining about social justice, and feminism, and all manner of other things. If Blizzard was bowing to anyone (they weren’t, it was a glitch), it would be to the reactionary gamergater morons.
That’s not my position though is it? Are you reading what I’m writing at all? Your responses are symptomatic of the poor standard of political discussion. It is very easy to seize upon a hyperbolic exaggeration of a reasoned position, far more of a challenge to deal with nuanced point in a nuanced manner.
Someone committed to a Hilary vote isn’t going to be budged. Nor is the committed Trump supporter. Why are you claiming that I think an anti-Trump supporter can be pushed to vote Trump?
And you trivialise social media witch-hunts. I suggest you read Jon Ronson’s “So you’ve been publicly shamed”. Such incidents and the general environment that they promote have a chilling effect on the willingness of people to discuss challenging issues and opinions openly. That is not healthy. That sails terrifyingly close to thought crime and it is terrifying whether it comes from the left or right.
Please don’t personalize arguments or characterize other posters in a negative way. If you must, do so in The Pit.
Warning issued, please don’t do it again.
Apologies – Starving Artist’s posts come across as nothing more than whining. I should have criticized the posts, not the poster.
Now, consider the scenario where your employment or promotion prospects were under threat for such a faux pas.
For insulting a co-worker? I probably should be sanctioned if I were to insult a co-worker.
So… how often does this happen? The only example I can think of is Tim Hunt, and in that case, while there was seemingly an overreaction, the basic principle made a lot of sense - if you’re in a position to shape young minds, particularly in STEM fields, which suffer greatly from a lack of female participation, you shouldn’t make jokes that make you look like you’re incredibly sexist! Since then, how many cases could you name that “PC” cost someone their job?
There are certainly people who have lost their jobs after saying publicly or posting on social media things that were spectacularly racist or sexist or otherwise offensive. In most cases it’s because the person has done something so egregious they’ve made their employer or their position look bad by association.
I do agree that UCL’s reaction to Hunt’s comments was overblown, but then so were the reports that there was a massive Twitter campaign to get him sacked (to mock him, yes, but calls to get him removed from his job were surprisingly few considering the usual reaction of the interwebs). UCL in general seem to have handled the whole thing badly.
I think your real objection here is to freedom of speech. The solution, of course, is to outlaw the kinds of speech you don’t like. Then the nasty racists on the right can do their nasty bigoted things without being called out for it.
I am not claiming that that’s what you think. I’m saying that if that’s not what you think, then the behavior you’re talking about is pretty much negligible from the standpoint of electoral results.
I repeat: If conservatives are being pushed into Trump support by resentment against “PC”, then they are ridiculously overreacting. If conservatives are not being pushed into Trump support by resentment against “PC”, then all this concern trolling about the alleged deleterious electoral effects of “PC” is basically so much hot air.
[QUOTE=Novelty Bobble]
And you trivialise social media witch-hunts.
[/quote]
Electorally speaking, they appear to be negligible. I’m not trivializing “witch-hunt” behavior such as doxxing and pile-ons in and of itself, but there’s tons of it online from both left and right sources.
I have seen no substantive evidence (certainly not from any poster in this thread) that ideological “witch hunts” such as GamerGate or the Tim Hunt controversy, etc., significantly sway voting patterns in either direction.
:rolleyes: Stripped of all the whiny resentful hyperbole, what all of this boils down to is that if you say something in public that offends some people, they are likely to criticize you in public.
“Social media lynching” is a deliberate exaggeration to conceal the fact that none of these “victims of PC” are actually being lynched, or otherwise deprived of their rights.
Or having any other of their actual civil liberties infringed, for that matter. Your overblown rhetoric is just a smokescreen for the fact that “PC” squabbling doesn’t actually interfere with anyone’s rights.
If your friends or family or employer don’t like the things you say in public or feel that those things reflect badly on them, they’re going to distance themselves from you. This has always been true. It’s just that nowadays social media makes it much easier for everybody to be constantly aware of who’s saying what in public.
No, they’re not. It’s the height of oversensitive special-snowflakery to pretend that other people being offended by or disapproving of things you say is somehow a serious threat to your freedom.
You can object to “PC” all you want, just as “PC” proponents can object to speech that they don’t like. But it’s ridiculous to pretend that it constitutes some kind of creeping “dictatorship” or “iron curtain” existence. You won’t convince anyone to take your objections to “PC” seriously by indulging in such exaggerated drama-llamary.